I think it is worth looking at this question again without all the diversion that has followed its first consideration. To focus this discussion it will be based in sutta stuff and Mahasi Sayadaw/Goenka/U Ba Khin type Satipatthana/bare attention type practice.Wind wrote:When a phenomenon rise and fall where does it rise from and where does it fall to? And what is the duration of one moment of rising and falling? Are all phenomena rising and falling on a continuous basis without break or are there moments of absences of rising and falling?
Part of the problem is that we are stuck with a language that tends to make things sound rather static. An example that might help make this clearer, I hope: speak a word. The sound is a phenomenon, but not an ontological or metaphysical thing. There is no need to think in those terms. It is the mind-body process that we are paying attention to, for it is there that the Dhamma unfolds.When a phenomenon rise and fall where does it rise from and where does it fall to?
Sound rises from a whole host of conditions, physical and mental. Before the various conditions came into play, there is no sound and as the conditions stop or significantly change there ceases to be sound. Sound is not a thing; rather, it is a dynamic process that is different at any one instant one might look at it and analyze it (with sound equipment or even one’s ears) - that is, there is no instant that sound is not in a process of change. It is with the use of language, talking about it, conceptualizing about it - that seems to make it static. Sound arises from causes and conditions; sound itself "is" an ever changing process. Sound does not go anywhere when the causes and condition for it cease; sound simply ceases, though it may be part of the conditioning and cause for the arising something else.
That would be an artificial construct used to talk about things, which may have its use, but as we pay attention to things - as we experience them without comment, without concepts - the notion of a set duration is neither really necessary nor is it what we really experience.And what is the duration of one moment of rising and falling?
If it is compounded, conditioned, it changes. Whatever we pay attention to without comment, with mindfulness and concentration will be seen as changing.Are all phenomena rising and falling on a continuous basis without break or are there moments of absences of rising and falling?