when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

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when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:47 am

why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am

Perhaps the work is written for a non Buddhist audience.
kind regards

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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby meindzai » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:03 am

Haven't come across this, but I do think some of Rumi's stuff is really cool. Quoting him in public probably amounts to some sort of mating call.

-M
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:06 am

jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?

Sometimes these words can neatly make a point, which is not to say that in quoting Rumi or anyother non-Buddhist one is buying into the non-Buddhist's point of view.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby PaulD » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:15 am

From what I've read Sufism was largely influenced by Buddhism so they share a lot of similarities.
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:29 am

PaulD wrote:From what I've read Sufism was largely influenced by Buddhism so they share a lot of similarities.


How? and what are those similarities?
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Sobeh » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:51 am

Ben wrote:How? and what are those similarities?


Perhaps start by reading a response article to a paper which makes such claims here.
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:16 am

jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?


I think it provides evidence that the dhamma is universal.

That even though steeped in belief systems that do run counter to the most important aspects of what the Buddha taught people leading a contemplative life can still come to some conclusions that do line up with dhamma.

The other thing is a lot of modern teachers wouldn't exclusively categorise themselves as Buddhists, they learned from Buddhist teachers sure but are primarily teaching insight meditation.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:24 am

jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?


JCS,

if modern teachers can use ultimate truths from non-Buddhist religions, which are congruent with the Dhamma, this is proof, that there are some Dhammic truths in this/these religion/s. Using those, while speaking to a partially non-Buddhist audience, could be called an extremely skillful method to make them come aboard the Buddhist boat.

(As Ben already said, perhaps they are not speaking to a Buddhist audience only.)

So using something they already know and accept allows them to stay open and receptive ...they won't shut down. Similarities create trust.

I would say that this modern teacher would be a very skillful teacher, quite like the Buddha found very diverse keys to very diverse people, by picking them up where they were at.

People would react by:

"Hey, this Buddha is cool! He's thinking like Rumi, -now I want to hear more."

JCS, if you could point me to the type of modern teacher you had in mind, I'd be very thankful. -I would love to pass it on to a few folks, who I think might be able to change the 'boat'....

Metta,

Anna
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:35 am

Goofaholix wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?


I think it provides evidence that the dhamma is universal.

Aspects of the Dhamma are universal and sometimes found in the most surprising places.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:36 am

Ben wrote:
PaulD wrote:From what I've read Sufism was largely influenced by Buddhism so they share a lot of similarities.


How? and what are those similarities?


Ben,

Here is a compilation of Poet seers, taking you directly to Sufi poets.

Rumi is in there, Hafiz (most beloved) and Lalla or Ib'n al Arabi.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:40 am

Be patient with everyone, but above all, with yourself. I mean, do not be disheartened by your imperfections, but always rise up with fresh courage. I am glad you make a fresh beginning daily. There is no better means to the attainment to the spiritual life than by continually beginning again, and never thinking we have done enough. How are we to be patient in dealing with our neighbor's faults if we are impatient in dealing with our own. He who is fretted by his own failings will not correct them. All profitable correction comes from a calm and peaceful mind.

Looks like good teaching to me. It is from St Francis De Salle and Joseph Goldstein used in a introduction to a 10 day retreat.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:48 am

I like it, Tilt!

If I may, I would like to post a short poem by Hafiz, but if you want to split it away from this thread, please do so, it's no problem.

Please ignore the word 'God' if you must, and replace it by Buddha or realization or Dharmakaya or whatever you deem fit. For "love" try "compassion" or similar terms...

    I Have Learned So Much


    I
    Have
    Learned
    So much from God
    That I can no longer
    Call
    Myself

    A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
    A Buddhist, a Jew.

    The Truth has shared so much of Itself
    With me

    That I can no longer call myself
    A man, a woman, an angel,
    Or even pure
    Soul.

    Love has
    Befriended Hafiz so completely
    It has turned to ash
    And freed
    Me

    Of every concept and image
    My mind has ever known.



With metta,

Annapurna
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:52 am

tiltbillings wrote:Aspects of the Dhamma are universal and sometimes found in the most surprising places.


True, and I guess the most important aspects which are the core of what is unique about what the Buddha taught are the aspects that are generally missing from other contemplative traditions, however the process of living a contemplative life is quite similar.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby oceanmen » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:17 am

thanks for this post,
truth is one,
illusions are many
truth has no color,
no religion,
no race, no label

metta,
salaam,
shalom

:namaste:
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby cooran » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:25 am

Hello Annapurna, all,

Hafiz also wrote:

"I am
A hole in a flute
That the Christ's breath moves through -
Listen to this
Music.


~~~~~~~~
AND
~~~~~~~~

Who can hear The Buddha sing?

Hafiz,
Tonight as you sit with your
Young students


Who
Have eyes
Burning like coals for the truth,


Raise your glass in honor
Of The Old Great One from Asia,


Speak in the beautiful style
And precision wit of a
Japanese verse.


Say a profound truth about this path
With the edge of your sailor's tongue that
Has been honed on the finest sake.

Okay,dear ones, are you ready?
Are you braced?



Well then:


Who can hear the Buddha sing
If that dog between your legs is barking?


Who can hear the Buddha sing
If that canine between your
Thighs


Still
Wants to do circus


Tricks?


with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Nibbida » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:50 pm

The Dhamma consists of universal principles. The world doesn't neatly divide into Buddhist and non-Buddhist. Any example or person that expresses an idea, be it Sariputta or Hal Finkelstein, Certified Public Accountant, is equally useful. I'm more concerned with the quality of the idea than from whose mouth (or hand) it came.

Addendum:

Along these lines: "There was once a prisoner who yearned for freedom. One day, the prophet Mohammed appeared to him, and gave him a set of keys to his cell, saying "Your piety has been rewarded. Allah has set you free." So the prisoner took the set of keys, mounted them on the wall, and prayed to them five times a day."

(Quoted in Jay Michaelson’s book, Everything is God: The Radical Path of Nondual Judaism)
"Dispositions of the mind, like limbs of the body, acquire strength by exercise." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:00 pm

Annapurna wrote:Ben,

Here is a compilation of Poet seers, taking you directly to Sufi poets.

Rumi is in there, Hafiz (most beloved) and Lalla or Ib'n al Arabi.



Thanks Anna!

Ben
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- Hereclitus


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Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:03 pm

I think any Dhamma book is going to have at least some missionary aspect to it, as well as instruction (otherwise why even write it?), so some use of quotes from other teachers is understandable. I don't care for it too much when there are more quotes from other teachers than there are from Buddha, but some quotes are good for skillful means and to show the tolerance of Buddhism. When it gets to be too many, then it starts looking like some of the New Agey 'all is one' stuff.

I took a look through the book I wrote and I have a few too, but then also several thousands from the Buddha. Quotes from other figures / teachers / traditions:

"Science without religion is lame;
Religion without science is blind
."
Albert Einstein

"Know thyself."
Aristotle

"The unexamined life is not worth living."
Socrates

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more
common than the unsuccessful man with talent. Genius will not; un-rewarded genius is almost
a proverb. Education will not -- the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination are omnipotent
."
(in regard to Right Effort)
Calvin Coolidge (30th president of the U.S.)

"One second of meditation is better than 50,000 years of prayer."
Muhammed (prophet and founder of Islam)

"When you pray, do not go to the street corners and to public places, go
away by yourself, all alone, and shut the door behind you
."
Jesus (from Matthew, chapter 6, New Testament, Bible)

"The whole world lives within a safeguarding, fish inside waves, birds help in the sky, the
elephant, the wolf, the lion as he hunts, the dragon, the ant, the waiting snake, even the ground,
the air, the water, every spark floating up from the fire, all subsist, exist, are held together in the
divine. Nothing is ever alone for a single moment
."
Rumi

Just that one from Rumi! :tongue: The selections I have put in my book are not as poetic as many authors do, but just meant to make a certain point and for skillful means, etc.
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:06 pm

cooran wrote:Hello Annapurna, all,

Hafiz also wrote:

"I am
A hole in a flute
That the Christ's breath moves through -
Listen to this
Music.


~~~~~~~~
AND
~~~~~~~~

Who can hear The Buddha sing?

Hafiz,
Tonight as you sit with your
Young students


Who
Have eyes
Burning like coals for the truth,


Raise your glass in honor
Of The Old Great One from Asia,


Speak in the beautiful style
And precision wit of a
Japanese verse.


Say a profound truth about this path
With the edge of your sailor's tongue that
Has been honed on the finest sake.

Okay,dear ones, are you ready?
Are you braced?



Well then:


Who can hear the Buddha sing
If that dog between your legs is barking?


Who can hear the Buddha sing
If that canine between your
Thighs


Still
Wants to do circus


Tricks?


with metta
Chris


Thanks for sharing! I didn't know those!
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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