The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Upasaka Sumana
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 am

While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?
Do not think lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Do not think lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

—Gotama Buddha, Dhammapada 121-122

User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 15729
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 10:25 am

Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

User avatar
Upasaka Sumana
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:27 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Thanks. Please bear in mind though, that English is not my native language. :tongue:

:smile:
Do not think lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Do not think lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

—Gotama Buddha, Dhammapada 121-122

User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 15729
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 10:38 am

Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"When we transcend one level of truth, the new level becomes what is true for us. The previous one is now false. What one experiences may not be what is experienced by the world in general, but that may well be truer. (Ven. Nanananda)

“I hope, Anuruddha, that you are all living in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes.” (MN 31)

Never again...

User avatar
Upasaka Sumana
Posts: 891
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)


In this case I wouldn't because it is not confirmed by an authority such as a teacher, nor do I have a reference.


:smile:



:focus:
Do not think lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Do not think lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." A drop at a time is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

—Gotama Buddha, Dhammapada 121-122

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby PeterB » Tue May 04, 2010 2:13 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?

I think your 1) could go both ways Stefan...sometimes we cling BECAUSE something is impermanant.
A realisation of anicca, dukkha, and anatta arises together , it seems to me.

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 8858
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue May 04, 2010 2:51 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.


That is good. A way to improve it might be to have the Three Marks helping to eradicate the Three causes of kamma.

Something like:

1) Realization of impermanence helps eradicate clinging.
2) Realization of suffering helps eradicate aversion.
3) Realization of non-self helps eradicates ignorance.

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3376
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Alex123 » Sat May 08, 2010 1:19 am

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.
What do you think?



Views of Self is upadana, clinging to self views. I supposed the wrong view of permanence and everlastingness would fit into upadana.
There are these four kinds of clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rituals and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. With the arising of craving there is the arising of clinging. With the cessation of craving there is the cessation of clinging.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


Ignorance is most often defined as not knowing 4NT.

Not knowing about suffering, not knowing about the origin of suffering, not knowing about the cessation of suffering, not knowing about the way leading to the cessation of suffering — this is called ignorance.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


With metta,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nmz and 4 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine