The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

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Upasaka Sumana
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The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 am

While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?
Metta,
Sumana

Rather light a candle than complain about darkness.
~Chinese proverb


The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
~Nelson Mandela


Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

~Dhp. 121-122

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Paul Davy
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Paul Davy » Tue May 04, 2010 10:25 am

Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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Upasaka Sumana
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:27 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Thanks. Please bear in mind though, that English is not my native language. :tongue:

:smile:
Metta,
Sumana

Rather light a candle than complain about darkness.
~Chinese proverb


The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
~Nelson Mandela


Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

~Dhp. 121-122

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Paul Davy
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Paul Davy » Tue May 04, 2010 10:38 am

Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)


In this case I wouldn't because it is not confirmed by an authority such as a teacher, nor do I have a reference.


:smile:



:focus:
Metta,
Sumana

Rather light a candle than complain about darkness.
~Chinese proverb


The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
~Nelson Mandela


Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.

~Dhp. 121-122

PeterB
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby PeterB » Tue May 04, 2010 2:13 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?

I think your 1) could go both ways Stefan...sometimes we cling BECAUSE something is impermanant.
A realisation of anicca, dukkha, and anatta arises together , it seems to me.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue May 04, 2010 2:51 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.


That is good. A way to improve it might be to have the Three Marks helping to eradicate the Three causes of kamma.

Something like:

1) Realization of impermanence helps eradicate clinging.
2) Realization of suffering helps eradicate aversion.
3) Realization of non-self helps eradicates ignorance.

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Alex123
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Alex123 » Sat May 08, 2010 1:19 am

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.
What do you think?



Views of Self is upadana, clinging to self views. I supposed the wrong view of permanence and everlastingness would fit into upadana.
There are these four kinds of clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rituals and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. With the arising of craving there is the arising of clinging. With the cessation of craving there is the cessation of clinging.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


Ignorance is most often defined as not knowing 4NT.

Not knowing about suffering, not knowing about the origin of suffering, not knowing about the cessation of suffering, not knowing about the way leading to the cessation of suffering — this is called ignorance.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


With metta,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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