The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

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Upasaka Sumana
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The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 am

While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?
My motto, philosophy, and guiding principle: You should do what’s good, Stephen. You should do what’s good. Always choose whatever is good.

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retrofuturist
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 10:25 am

Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

"If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good." - Thomas J. Watson

Never again...

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:27 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

I think 'eradicates' is probably too strong a word, though the logic seems sound.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Thanks. Please bear in mind though, that English is not my native language. :tongue:

:smile:
My motto, philosophy, and guiding principle: You should do what’s good, Stephen. You should do what’s good. Always choose whatever is good.

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 10:38 am

Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

"If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good." - Thomas J. Watson

Never again...

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Upasaka Sumana
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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Upasaka Sumana » Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Stefan,

No that's fine - I was just thinking in case you were to put something on Wikipedia etc.

Metta,
Retro. :)


In this case I wouldn't because it is not confirmed by an authority such as a teacher, nor do I have a reference.


:smile:



:focus:
My motto, philosophy, and guiding principle: You should do what’s good, Stephen. You should do what’s good. Always choose whatever is good.

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby PeterB » Tue May 04, 2010 2:13 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.

Can you see why?

1) We cling because we think things are permanent. When we see that they are impermanent we stop clinging.
2) We crave because we think things are pleasurable. When we see they are dukkha we stop craving.
3) We are ignorant because we think we have a self. When we realize anatta we eradicate ignorance.

It makes sense. I have not heard this from any teacher nor from the Buddha himself.

What do you think?

I think your 1) could go both ways Stefan...sometimes we cling BECAUSE something is impermanant.
A realisation of anicca, dukkha, and anatta arises together , it seems to me.

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue May 04, 2010 2:51 pm

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.


That is good. A way to improve it might be to have the Three Marks helping to eradicate the Three causes of kamma.

Something like:

1) Realization of impermanence helps eradicate clinging.
2) Realization of suffering helps eradicate aversion.
3) Realization of non-self helps eradicates ignorance.

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Re: The three marks and the three D.O. kilesas

Postby Alex123 » Sat May 08, 2010 1:19 am

Stefan wrote:While I was contemplating the three marks of existence, I came to these insights.

1) Realization of impermanence eradicates clinging.
2) Realization of suffering eradicates craving.
3) Realization of non-self eradicates ignorance.
What do you think?



Views of Self is upadana, clinging to self views. I supposed the wrong view of permanence and everlastingness would fit into upadana.
There are these four kinds of clinging: clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rituals and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. With the arising of craving there is the arising of clinging. With the cessation of craving there is the cessation of clinging.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


Ignorance is most often defined as not knowing 4NT.

Not knowing about suffering, not knowing about the origin of suffering, not knowing about the cessation of suffering, not knowing about the way leading to the cessation of suffering — this is called ignorance.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html


With metta,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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