Wind wrote:Does one spontaneously arise in Heaven or Hell? If so, what form does one take?
Ben wrote:Hi Wind
I think Retro is saying that he thinks heaven and hell are metaphors, and don't actually exist.
Ben wrote:I think Retro is saying that he thinks heaven and hell are metaphors, and don't actually exist.
Does one spontaneously arise in Heaven or Hell?
But there's no need to imagine these things as discreetly separate dimensions of existence. If a particular birth is characterized by very unpleasant circumstances, why not call it a birth into a "hell realm"?
A realm as some kind of objectified geo-spatial "place" is meaningless, and potentially harmful, because it offsets the wisdom that "Mind precedes all dhammas. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought." (Dhp 1-2).
Verse 1: All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha' 3 follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.
1. manopubbangama dhamma: All mental phenomena have Mind as their forerunner in the sense that Mind is the most dominant, and it is the cause of the other three mental phenomena, namely, Feeling (vedana), Perception (sanna) and Mental Formations or Mental Concomitants (sankhara). These three have Mind or Consciousness (vinnana) as their forerunner, because although they arise simultaneously with Mind they cannot arise if Mind does not arise. (The Commentary)
2. manasa ce padutthena (Verse 1) and manasi ce pasannena (Verse 2): Manasa here means intention or volition (cetana); volition leads one to the performance of volitional actions, both good and evil. This volition and the resultant actions constitute kamma; and kamma always follows one to produce results. Cakkhupala's blindness (Verse 1) was the consequence of his having acted with an evil intention in a previous existence and Matthakundali's happy existence in Tavatimsa celestial world (Verse 2) was the result of his mental devotion (manopasada) to the Buddha.
Because this is not real hell and we can find suttas where it is said that tortures in human world is nothing if compared with hell suffering. I'm 100% sure that heavens and hells exist as a separate worlds and many suttas confirm this.
Zom wrote:‘In the same manner bhikkhus, the unpleasantess and displeasure experienced on account of giving six thousand whips three times a day cannot be reckoned as a comparison, not even as a quarter, nor even as a sign for the unpleasantness and displeasure experienced in hell.
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