Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

do wet dreams count as brahmacariya?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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retrofuturist
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
convivium wrote:do wet dreams count as brahmacariya?
There is no violation of patimokkha precepts in this, so yes.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

what about half asleep? lucid dream? :geek: it's interesting because the intention is still there, but the superego is clouded. it's symptomatic of suppression. there's a stereotype that this happened (or happens) often with therevada monks. i wouldn't imagine that could be true though.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

Can I ask you something Convivium..and I am not casting aspertions or being sarcastic here. Do you have an interest in any other aspect of the Buddhadhamma apart from your interest in its relationship to sexuality ?
You see Buddhadhamma comes as a package . It addresses many areas of functioning and does not concentrate on one to the exclusion of others.
I would go so far as to say that if our interest in Dhamma revolves around any single issue..like sexuality or like diet for example we will stand in danger of missing most of what it is saying.
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

this is particularly on my mind, because i'm considering ordination, and i've never been chaste for more than 6 months...
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by jcsuperstar »

you had sex when you were 6 months old?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

thankfully i was never molested......
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

There are always going to be problems Convivium when we take one aspect of our totality out of context.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by tiltbillings »

convivium wrote:So the main methods dealing with sexual suppression and desire are so far...
contemplation of loathsomeness/charnel ground
jhana
sense restraint
hard work/busy schedule/little sleep
one meal a day
not seeing women
the rest of the eightfold path...
Do many Therevada monastics & initiates have issues of sexual suppression? Are these approaches usually sufficient to renounce all forms of sexuality?
The best advice - the only really meaningful advice - comes at the end of this humorous exchange between the Ananda and the Buddha:

Then the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One: "How, Lord, should we conduct ourselves towards women?"

"Do not see them, Ananda."

"But, Lord, if we do see them?"

"Do not speak, Ananda."

"But, Lord, if they should speak to us?"

"Then, Ananda, you should establish mindfulness."
- DN 16.

Sexual feelings are not going to go away as long as you have a body. Best learn to be mindful.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Goofaholix
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by Goofaholix »

convivium wrote:this is particularly on my mind, because i'm considering ordination, and i've never been chaste for more than 6 months...
If you are saying you've gone for 6 months without masterbating or having intercourse as an adult male then I think you've achieved more than most of us could lay claim to and will find being a monk a breeze.

Seriously if you ordain somewhere with a good standard of vinaya I think you'll find that you'll take the rules seriously enough that you won't even consider breaking a major rule like this.

The practice is about realising the empty nature of these kinds of cravings and that they don't control you.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

Sexual feelings are not going to go away as long as you have a body. Best learn to be mindful.
of course ananda wasn't an anagami at that point :geek:
There are always going to be problems Convivium when we take one aspect of our totality out of context.
true. it's worth discussing of course because when we abandon all sexuality through patimokkha restraint some serious sankaras, if not the most serious, come to threaten psychological equilibrium (discernment, etc.)
("Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions....)

"And what is the right action that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? Abstaining from killing, from taking what is not given, & from illicit sex. This is the right action that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.

"And what is the right action that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The abstaining, desisting, abstinence, avoidance of the three forms of bodily misconduct of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right action that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

"One tries to abandon wrong action & to enter into right action: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong action & to enter & remain in right action: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right action. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

If you are saying you've gone for 6 months without masterbating or having intercourse as an adult male then I think you've achieved more than most of us could lay claim to and will find being a monk a breeze.
thanks for your confidence. a lifetime commitment has to come after at least a year as naga and then a novice period, which will make this more clear.
Seriously if you ordain somewhere with a good standard of vinaya I think you'll find that you'll take the rules seriously enough that you won't even consider breaking a major rule like this.
:pig: YAY! i've broken vows in the past, but this has serious punishments so yr probably right. and other people supporting and trusting in us, and so on.
The practice is about realising the empty nature of these kinds of cravings and that they don't control you.
So are meteor showers and tidal waves; all elements of nature... that's why these practices, and also understanding anicca, anatta dukkha, and so on, are here before gradual eradication, & insight, in paths beyond stream entry.
Last edited by convivium on Sat May 22, 2010 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by jcsuperstar »

convivium wrote:thankfully i was never molested......
then youve gone longer than 6 months, and i dont know about you, but i'd like to think that as an adult, especially one who thinks they should ordain, i have more self control than a child.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

the point is kids can't have sex at six months unless they're molested. since i've been able to i have. like most kids i grew up with in america. :pig:
maybe what your really trying to say jc, is "be you as children." we must embrace the positivity in life with a childlike enthusiasm. sexuality isn't necessarily a corruption, but the way we learned it. but it's not needed for arahatship...
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/090607%20Lust.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "you need another form of pleasure... primarily right mindfulness right concentration" he's an amazing teacher.
---
this happened a while ago at a goenka center and i took it really seriously: how about masterbating half asleep? not fully conscious for the super ego to operate but also being conscious of that choice? it's surprising that nocturnal emissions aren't against vinaya in some way, our vigilance is just more clouded.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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