Different causes of sankhara?

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Tex
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Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Tex » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:21 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

Reductor
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Reductor » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:48 pm

DO and the aggregates are looking at experience from difference POV so there seems to be a discrepancy. This is not the case, really. If you break down contact you have: external base (world) + internal base (body) + consciousness-class. Now in MN 44 or 43 consciousness is said to be inextricably bound with perception and feeling. So each act of contact pulls in form, perception, feeling and consciousness. And it is dependent on these other aggregates that volition functions for how can volition occur in a vacuum? If there is no information of any kind, what can volition do? Nothing, so volition cannot be said to exist without the information provided by the other four aggregates, and so it is conditioned there.

Now, the question become: "where does ignorance reside"? It is safe to say the ignorance resides, so to speak, with perception and feelings more than any of the other aggregates. Since volition rests on dependence of these two aggregates, and these two are heavily tainted by ignorance, then we see that volition is also dependent on ignorance.

DO describes the experiential order of how the aggregates come to be, while the aggregates are a division of the being that has come into functional categories.

Or so I see it.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:38 pm

Greetings,

Sankharas are things that are formed in dependence on something else.

To that end, every subsequent step on the D.O. sequence is a sankhara as it is dependently originated.

All dhammas with the exception of nibbana are sankhata-dhamma (formed dhammas, i.e. things dependent on something else)

See also Nanavira Thera's comments on sankhara at http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=84

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:58 pm


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Ben
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:03 am

Hi Tex

If you do a word search here you will eventually drag up a thread titled 'sankhara' where I transcribed Bhikkhu Bodhi's definition from the introduction of his translation of the Samyutta Nikaya. It might be of benefit to reference it here.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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e: [email protected]..

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Tex
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Tex » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:26 am

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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Ben
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:12 am

Hi Tex

Do you have a copy of the Vism?
If so, I refer you to Ch XVII (Dependent Origination), sections 60 to 65 (Formations), and from section 101 (How ignorance is a condition for formations).
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Tex
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Tex » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:09 am

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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retrofuturist
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:14 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Ben » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:30 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Alex123
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Re: Different causes of sankhara?

Postby Alex123 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:11 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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