Aspiration, Vows and Choice

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dhammakid
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Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:01 am

Hello All,
This has been mentioned in ES recently, but as I understand it, one has no choice in what level of Buddhahood they will eventually obtain. So, one cannot choose to become a Sammasambuddha, but rather can make the vow in front of a Sammasambuddha and only hope the Buddha has the prophecy ready for them. I read on ES there is nothing in the suttas supporting choice.

If this is the case, what is it determining the path of a Buddha? Is it their kamma that leads them to whatever specific Buddhahood they will obtain? If that's true, then it does suggest choice - because our actions determine our kamma, right? (But then it's also the other way around - our kamma affects our actions. You can't avoid the circle!)

Surely it isn't some secret random process.

:shrug:

:namaste:
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:13 am

- Peter


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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:26 am

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:59 am



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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:26 am

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:33 am

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:01 am

the problem with trying to understand past karma, is if you try to go too far back youre really just playing a game of sorts.

but if we just take our present life, and our kamma made in this life we can see how it plays out in our daily lives.

i chose to drop out of uni years ago, i though i had the rest of my life to play around, my wife had a good job and i was pretty well taken care of (physically, emotionaly i was in a very abusive and crappy situation)
this was my choice. my kamma. it hasnt been the best of choices for me. my marrage ended, which has been great for me in many ways, but i have to take crappy jobs cause i'm considered uneducated, i used to work with scientists and be consided somewhat of an intelectual, now i get no respect, and people assume i'm some lazy idiot.
thats my karma. does it determine my actions? yes, very much so. i'm presently getting ready to go back to uni. i hate the life i made for myself, i hate that i'm not in a position to just buy whatever i want for the girl i love, or just go to thailand with her to visit her parents etc. my past life, plays out everyday in my present one. it doesnt determine what i do, or who i will be. but it has an effect.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:47 am

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:38 am

Greetings Dhammakid,

The way I see it, if the Buddha wanted us to strive for Buddhahood he would have said so. If the Buddha wanted us to strive for Arahantship he would have said so. That's all that matters to me - what he said. What do you believe he said? ;)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Will » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:57 pm

I keep pushing this work by Ledi Sayadaw, so again, study the first chapter, after the listing of the paramis and there are the many factors of vows & qualities needed for Solitary buddhahood, Arahanthood and Full buddhahood.

http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttam ... onsDefined

There is a "cart before the horse" element, I think, in the Kid's view. It is not that one has to make the bodhisatta vow/aspiration (or any other noble vow) for the first time in front of a Buddha for the vow to become effective. After eons of so aspiring and working to become that bodhisatta, kammic effect would naturally lead one to appear before some Buddha. That Buddha would simply give assurance that you will be successful. If you are not ready yet, you would not appear before a Buddha.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:23 pm

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:25 pm

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Will » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:03 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:47 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Will
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Will » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:40 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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retrofuturist
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:49 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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kc2dpt
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:53 am

- Peter


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kc2dpt
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:56 am

- Peter


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Will
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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby Will » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:00 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Re: Aspiration, Vows and Choice

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:34 pm

I believe that one should strive for arahantship.

The Buddha wanted people to reach nibbana here and now, not aeons from now.

The Buddha has pointed the way to the deathless, we should strive for it without delay.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken


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