Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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kc2dpt
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by kc2dpt »

porpoise wrote:Maybe there's a difference between oversimplifying dharma ( the teachings ) and oversimplifying practice. For me daily practice needs to be relatively simple, otherwise I lose track and get confused.
This is the most insightful thing I've read online in a long time. Thank you very much. :anjali:

Looking at my own life, I've read a lot of suttas and a lot of commentaries and attended a lot of lectures and I consider it all valuable and important to my understanding of the Dhamma. On the other hand, my practice is very simple: try my best to avoid the unwholesome and cultivate the wholesome. These two sides are brought together thus: all that study informs my deciding what is un/wholesome.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Terasi
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by Terasi »

"Western-style" Buddhism are easier to swallow for beginners like me. As long as it doesn't stray far from Dhamma, I think the simple and straightforward one is better to introduce people to Buddhism. Beginners like me can relate to searching for happiness, simple and appealing. If you talk about nibbana, you'll have to explain what it is, it will be too long, difficult and intimidating for us.
Before I knew Western-style teachers in Theravada, I was terrified with Buddhism because the ones I've been were so complicated and ceremonial that I didn't even know what Buddha actually taught. So yeah, let there be variety to benefit different kinds of people.
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mettafuture
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by mettafuture »

bodom wrote:See these recommendations:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=341" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In my opinion, having read them all, they are all straight Buddhadhamma. Nothing new age here and they are all written for a western audience.

:anjali:
Do any of those books give instructions on how to meditate on the 6 recollections - the original objects of meditation for the lay community, or on how to deal with hindrances and asavas as they arise?

Overcomplicating practice can be as much of a problem as oversimplifying it. I used to have a problem doing both. But I've done enough research, and talked with enough people to know exactly what I need to read, practice, and study. I just find it a little frustrating there are so few resources (that I know of) that detail something other than calmness and present moment awareness.

How great would it be if there was a big book that made mention of all the important topics in Theravada Buddhism like the 4 noble truths, 8 fold path, 5 precepts, 10 fetters (and/or 3 influxes), and the triple refuge? It could even include quotes from the Buddha and his disciples. A great title for it could be 'In The Buddha's Words', and perhaps Bhikkhu Bodhi could write it? :D

But seriously... We already have 1 amazing book that explains the dhamma. Now we just need one that details the practice, from different angles, so different people can find a shoe that fits.
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bodom
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by bodom »

mettafuture wrote:Do any of those books give instructions on how to meditate on the 6 recollections - the original objects of meditation for the lay community, or on how to deal with hindrances and asavas as they arise?
Of course.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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mettafuture
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by mettafuture »

bodom wrote:
mettafuture wrote:Do any of those books give instructions on how to meditate on the 6 recollections - the original objects of meditation for the lay community, or on how to deal with hindrances and asavas as they arise?
Of course.

:anjali:
Lol. Which ones?
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bodom
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by bodom »

mettafuture wrote:
bodom wrote:
mettafuture wrote:Do any of those books give instructions on how to meditate on the 6 recollections - the original objects of meditation for the lay community, or on how to deal with hindrances and asavas as they arise?
Of course.

:anjali:
Lol. Which ones?
Off the top of my head, Khantipalo's Practical Advice for Meditators touches on the Six Recollections, Pandita's The State of Mind Called Beautiful gives instructions on the recollection of the Buddha and the Dhamma. Read the Visuddhimagga for the most detailed explanation of the recollections. As far as working with the hindrances and fetters, I have found both of Bhante G's books helpful as well as Pure and Simple by Upasika Nanayon, Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Brahm, The Way of Mindfulness by Soma Thera,all of Chah's..I mean I could go on and list all the books I already recommended. Thats why I recommended them in the first place! Hope you find them as helpful as I did.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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JeffR
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by JeffR »

How great would it be if there was a big book that made mention of all the important topics in Theravada Buddhism like the 4 noble truths, 8 fold path, 5 precepts, 10 fetters (and/or 3 influxes), and the triple refuge?
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/ ... mma-lists/

Not a big book, a nice outline containing all you've listed and then some. I find it handy to review every now and again.

-Jeff
:buddha2:
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945
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Goofaholix
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by Goofaholix »

Westerners have a tendency to overcomplicate practice. This is why teachers need to stress over and over to let go of that, it's not to say they want you to ignore other aspects of practice but they are trying to redress the balance. If we can't let go over our natural tendency to want to control, categorise, define, and file away under understood everything we experience we'll never be able to see the woods for the trees.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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mettafuture
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by mettafuture »

bodom wrote:Off the top of my head, Khantipalo's Practical Advice for Meditators touches on the Six Recollections, Pandita's The State of Mind Called Beautiful gives instructions on the recollection of the Buddha and the Dhamma. Read the Visuddhimagga for the most detailed explanation of the recollections. As far as working with the hindrances and fetters, I have found both of Bhante G's books helpful as well as Pure and Simple by Upasika Nanayon, Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond by Brahm, The Way of Mindfulness by Soma Thera,all of Chah's..I mean I could go on and list all the books I already recommended. Thats why I recommended them in the first place! Hope you find them as helpful as I did.

:anjali:
Thank you for the list. I'm sure I and others here will benefit from your selection.

With Metta

:hello:
JeffR wrote:
How great would it be if there was a big book that made mention of all the important topics in Theravada Buddhism like the 4 noble truths, 8 fold path, 5 precepts, 10 fetters (and/or 3 influxes), and the triple refuge?
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/ ... mma-lists/

Not a big book, a nice outline containing all you've listed and then some. I find it handy to review every now and again.

-Jeff
:buddha2:
Thanks. I'll give the pdf a peek. :D
Goofaholix wrote:Westerners have a tendency to overcomplicate practice. This is why teachers need to stress over and over to let go of that, it's not to say they want you to ignore other aspects of practice but they are trying to redress the balance. If we can't let go over our natural tendency to want to control, categorise, define, and file away under understood everything we experience we'll never be able to see the woods for the trees.
This is very true.
PeterB
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Re: Do Western Buddhists oversimplify practice?

Post by PeterB »

Goofaholix wrote:Westerners have a tendency to overcomplicate practice. This is why teachers need to stress over and over to let go of that, it's not to say they want you to ignore other aspects of practice but they are trying to redress the balance. If we can't let go over our natural tendency to want to control, categorise, define, and file away under understood everything we experience we'll never be able to see the woods for the trees.
Well said and it cant be over emphasised.
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