Fourfold Sangha

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Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:00 am

Greetings all,

Is this the fourfold sangha the Buddha founded?:

Bhikkhus - monks
Bhikkunis - nuns
Upasakas - male lay followers
Upasikas - female lay followers

Thanks!
With metta,

Justin
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:22 am

The Fourfold Sangha consists of those on the path and those in attainment of the path thus making eight types of individuals:

(1) the path to stream-entry;
(2) the fruition of stream-entry;
(3) the path to once-returning ;
(4) the fruition of once-returning;
(5) the path to non-returning ;
(6) the fruition of non-returning;
(7) the path to arahantship ;
(8) the fruition of arahantship

Sangha

In the suttas the word sangha(lit. "group, assembly") is usually used in one of two ways: it refers either to the community of ordained monks and nuns (bhikkhu-sangha and bhikkhuni-sangha)or to the community of "noble ones" (ariya-sangha)— persons who have attained at least stream-entry, the first stage of Awakening.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/sangha.html

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:29 am

Greetings,

It gets awfully confusing how the Sangha is related in so many different ways.

Personally I prefer just to stick with Sangha (for the ordained) and Noble or Aryan Sangha (for those depicted in Bodom's list above).

Even then, I'm sure I could be more precise... but if I got more precise, would I just further add to the confusion?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:34 am

:shock: Wow, okay. I was totally wrong on that one. "Upasaka" and "upasika" are correct though, aren't they?
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:36 am

theravada_guy wrote::shock: Wow, okay. I was totally wrong on that one. "Upasaka" and "upasika" are correct though, aren't they?


Yes those are the correct terms for male and female lay disciples.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:37 am

Okay, thanks bodom. Does what I mentioned have a name or label? "Fourfold..."? Community maybe?
With metta,

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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:44 am

theravada_guy wrote:Okay, thanks bodom. Does what I mentioned have a name or label? "Fourfold..."? Community maybe?


No Fourfold Sangha is correct. There are four types of noble persons. Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, Anāgāmi and Arahant. Hence Fourfold. It gets confusing because each stage is just divided into two phases: the path(magga), those still in training for Sotāpanna, Sakadagami atc. and its fruition(phala), those who have already attained Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, etc. So in actuality its the four types of noble persons and the eight kinds of individuals.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:53 am

Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?
With metta,

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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:59 am

theravada_guy wrote:Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?


Only Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis are considered the Sangha. If a layman reaches Sotāpanna, Sakadagami etc, then he is considered part of the Ariya Sangha.

Sangha: The Ideal World Community by Ven. Prayudh Payutto

As soon as a person, whether a monk or a layman, realizes the Four Noble Truths and gains a first vision of Nibbana, he automatically becomes a Sotapanna and, simultaneously, a member of the Noble Sangha of disciples.


http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/sangha.htm

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:10 am

I think I confused this whole conversation with the term "sangha". Disregarding that term, do those four types of individuals I mentioned have a name, collectively speaking?

Also, since it's been brought up, do people still gain the first level of sainthood in these days? I don't know the Pali terms very well, even though I've read them numerous times. When I was a Hindu, I could remember most of the Sanskrit words I came across that were religious in nature (and there were a lot of terms I memorized) but for some reason, I'm having difficulty with the Pali words. In books, I just skip over the Pali terms because it kinda confuses me, or knocks off my concentration. I don't get it. :shrug:
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby Sylvester » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:14 am

theravada_guy wrote:Okay, but do the four things I mentioned (bhikkhus, bhikkunis, upasakas and upasikas) have a collective term?


Hi, it's called the Catasso Parisa - the Fourfold Assembly.

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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:55 am

these things get confusing especially in the west where sangha has come to mean any Buddhist. however as a side note i think it is important to remember when we take refuge the sangha mentioned (unless you want to take it differently as a personal choice) is the noble sangha (Sotāpanna, Sakadagami, Anāgāmi and Arahant.) those who are of noble status, not just any monk or Buddhist.
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:35 am

Greetings jc,

Yeah, the notion of "all Buddhists are part of the sangha" is what threw me off on my question in my original post on this. What I realize now is, I think that view is more of a Vajrayana, rather than Theravada view. I don't know. I sometimes feel guilty for all the questions I have and the fact I can't really contribute to anyone elses' questions. I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about. Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this. Any other thoughts are still welcome of course.
With metta,

Justin
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby Reductor » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:43 am

theravada_guy wrote:I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about.


This is very true. :hug:
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:32 pm

theravada_guy wrote:Greetings jc,

Yeah, the notion of "all Buddhists are part of the sangha" is what threw me off on my question in my original post on this. What I realize now is, I think that view is more of a Vajrayana, rather than Theravada view. I don't know. I sometimes feel guilty for all the questions I have and the fact I can't really contribute to anyone elses' questions. I guess that's something I shouldn't worry about. Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to this. Any other thoughts are still welcome of course.


How will you know if you dont ask?

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Fourfold Sangha

Postby theravada_guy » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:33 pm

Thanks thereductor and bodom. :smile:
With metta,

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