Practise vs suttra

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Individual
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Re: Practise vs sutta

Postby Individual » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:10 pm

lppaefans wrote:All,

I have a question to all.

I am buddhist and i believed one buddhist must do personal cultivation. That is important. To follow the 5 precepts and 8 noble truths.
I am a man who is not well vserse in suttra at all but i like reading Buddha simple short quotes and great monks quotes, i will try to put in practicse.
I like those tudong monks trainning in North east thailand with AC Mun line down. They practise in mindfulness and mind awareness.

A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer. :namaste: :namaste:

am i wrong??
by well verse in suttra but without praticsing, can one get enlighten?

hope to hear more views ya. :console: :console:

hahahahaha :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

sadhu sadhu sadhu.

From what I've seen, in order to attain enlightenment, one must overcome certain "fetters." Reading suttas might be a part of that (reading suttas is a form of dhamma practice), but it also might not be. A good question to ask is: Is there anyone in the suttas who attained enlightenment who also was probably not well-versed in the suttas?

The Buddha's teaching is called a "doctrine & discipline" (dhamma-vinaya). Regarding the dichotomy between meditation and studying Dhamma, this sutta seems to suggest that early Buddhists tended to focus primarily on one or the other, for whatever reason. There might be a reason why it is impractical to devote oneself both a meditative practice and a practice of sutta scholarship and devotion.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:09 pm

retrofuturist wrote:I think somewhere in the Canon there's a simile of a flower with no fragrance, which communicates a similar message.

There is also, I think, the simile of the man who counts another man's cows which points to a similar message.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:13 pm

Manapa wrote:just because you can quote from scripture doesn't mean you know the meaning of the words, or just because you can quote the scripture doesn't mean the meaning is not misrepresented.

This is a very good point. It is why I feel finding a teacher is so important. Just reading books by yourself can easily result in "misreading the map". Then one may practice but will be practicing in the wrong way.

Although one may argue that if one pays attention then one will eventually see they are practicing in the wrong way, such a one may conclude they have misinterpreted the teachings but such a one may instead conclude that the teachings don't work and then they give up.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:14 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:Sorry for being vague and apologies to anyone who took it the wrong way. I would never ever dissuade anyone from studying the teachings and am sorry i am being accused of such.

I am sorry I misunderstood you.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby bodom » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:18 pm

Peter wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:I think somewhere in the Canon there's a simile of a flower with no fragrance, which communicates a similar message.

There is also, I think, the simile of the man who counts another man's cows which points to a similar message.


I believe you mean this passage peter?

19. Much though he recites the sacred texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who only counts the cows of others -- he does not partake of the blessings of the holy life.

Dhammapada 1
The Pairs

:namaste:
Last edited by bodom on Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby bodom » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:18 pm

Peter wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:Sorry for being vague and apologies to anyone who took it the wrong way. I would never ever dissuade anyone from studying the teachings and am sorry i am being accused of such.

I am sorry I misunderstood you.


Not a problem whatsoever.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:10 pm

Peter wrote:
Manapa wrote:just because you can quote from scripture doesn't mean you know the meaning of the words, or just because you can quote the scripture doesn't mean the meaning is not misrepresented.

This is a very good point. It is why I feel finding a teacher is so important. Just reading books by yourself can easily result in "misreading the map". Then one may practice but will be practicing in the wrong way.

Although one may argue that if one pays attention then one will eventually see they are practicing in the wrong way, such a one may conclude they have misinterpreted the teachings but such a one may instead conclude that the teachings don't work and then they give up.



It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:54 am

Manapa wrote:It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.

To me this is just semantics. Whether we read the scriptures ourselves and let it guide our practice or we let a teacher guide our practice and that teacher has read the scriptures and lets it guide his teaching... still we are relying on the teachings as recorded in the scriptures. In the first case directly and in the second case indirectly.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:31 am

Peter wrote:
Manapa wrote:It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.

To me this is just semantics. Whether we read the scriptures ourselves and let it guide our practice or we let a teacher guide our practice and that teacher has read the scriptures and lets it guide his teaching... still we are relying on the teachings as recorded in the scriptures. In the first case directly and in the second case indirectly.


is that so?
and why did you study what I said if you found it so?
Friendship is the whole of the path.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:35 am

Greetings Manapa,

Manapa wrote:Friendship is the whole of the path.

Friendship however in the context of that quote however is not referring to a "teacher"... rather a Kalyana-mitta, a spiritual friend. There is for example in the suttas, talk of samatha-experts helping out vipassana-novices and vice versa does have sutta support.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:58 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Manapa,

Manapa wrote:Friendship is the whole of the path.

Friendship however in the context of that quote however is not referring to a "teacher"... rather a Kalyana-mitta, a spiritual friend. There is for example in the suttas, talk of samatha-experts helping out vipassana-novices and vice versa does have sutta support.

Metta,
Retro. :)


and what is a spiritual friend if not someone who helps us cultivate the noble eightfold path?

our relationships with others may at times be equal, and at other times be more of a student/teacher role. if we look at the first two teachers the Buddha had they went from teacher disciple to peers, and if they had been alive after his enlightenment back to student teacher.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby Danny » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:48 am

lppaefans wrote:All,

I have a question to all.

I am buddhist and i believed one buddhist must do personal cultivation. That is important. To follow the 5 precepts and 8 noble truths.
I am a man who is not well vserse in suttra at all but i like reading Buddha simple short quotes and great monks quotes, i will try to put in practicse.
I like those tudong monks trainning in North east thailand with AC Mun line down. They practise in mindfulness and mind awareness.

A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer. :namaste: :namaste:

am i wrong??
by well verse in suttra but without praticsing, can one get enlighten?

hope to hear more views ya. :console: :console:

hahahahaha :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

sadhu sadhu sadhu.


Maybe, to put it another way, if you have a very busy week ahead and only time do do meditate ór to study, not both, what would you do? I would meditate, but I already read a lot to put in practice. Maybe for others it's different. If I have plenty of time I need to read to keep me motivated to go on the cushion.
So I'm not saying not to study, just asking: what would you do in that situation?

Metta,

Danny

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby Kare » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:35 am

lppaefans wrote:A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer.


Ask yourself this question: Which foot is more important for walking? Your right foot or your left foot?
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: Practise vs suttra

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:44 pm

Left, definitely. Sometimes I just leave my right foot at home.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.


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