Bad Kamma

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Bad Kamma

Postby ShinMeiDokuJoh » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:56 pm

Dear all,
in the Introduction section I wrote, concerning the cervical
cancer I've got: "...I am shure this bad Kamma I am suffering now will go away in some time..."

Now I have been reading the quotes provided by David:


TheDhamma wrote: No bad kamma!
There are eight causes of ill-health and bad kamma is only one.
See:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=S ... and_health
See also:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Determinism
and:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Free_will


I agree that not every sickness or a having cold etc is due Kamma... but I really believe that
such life threatening sickness is a result of Kamma of this life or is the fruit of Kamma from previous lives
ripening during this life-time.

Am I that mislead? What do you think?

About this sentence I have a question too: http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=S ... and_health

...But the Buddha listed eight causes of sickness, only one of which is kamma ,



...does this mean, that only one cause of sickness is because of Kamma...which one is it? Or do I misunderstand?


With best regards
ShinMeiDokuJoh
Pali in Thai Script: http://paliinthaiscript.blogspot.com

Pali Sutta, Gatha and Paritta in Thai Script: http://sutta-sutra-pali-in-thai-script-lette.blogspot.com
User avatar
ShinMeiDokuJoh
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 am
Location: Germany

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:24 pm

First of all I do hope that you regain your health soon :namaste:

In reguards to your question it would be nearly impossible to find out if your illness is due to bad kamma or not. Kamma is very complex and only those who have developed certain meditative abilities are only able to work out what is the result of kamma and what isnt (in fact i think only the buddha could do this but i have a feeling i am wrong on this).

Illness can be a result of past kamma, but it can also be a natural occurence (for want of a better word) of life This includes all of illness from colds to cancer. It is this bodies nature to decay and become ill, even those beings in the human realm with great wholesome kamma are not an exception to this rule.

Either way it does not matter if it is the result of past kamma or not. Reflection on the illness in terms of impermenance, dukkha and not-self would be benefical. We are all subject to illness, we will all experience it, if its due to past kamma or not.

I hope this has helped answer your question

Metta
Craig
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
User avatar
clw_uk
 
Posts: 3479
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:32 pm

ShinMeiDokuJoh wrote:I really believe that such life threatening sickness is a result of Kamma of this life or is the fruit of Kamma from previous lives ripening during this life-time.

Why do you believe this?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
kc2dpt
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:44 am

Greetings ShinMeiDokuJoh,

Unwholesome mindstates such as those which underpin unwholesome actions (aka 'bad kamma') can manifest themselves in illness. Just by way of example, think about stress and the effects it can have on the body. But of course, as the Buddha points out, kamma is not the only cause of sickness.

To put illness down to kamma though is an imprecise science (unless you yourself are a Buddha) and one that ultimately achieves nothing, because the past is past, and you can only work on the present and in time, the future.

Wishing you all the best for your health.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14672
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:15 am

ShinMeiDokuJoh wrote:Dear all,
in the Introduction section I wrote, concerning the cervical
cancer I've got: "...I am shure this bad Kamma I am suffering now will go away in some time..."

Now I have been reading the quotes provided by David:


TheDhamma wrote: No bad kamma!
There are eight causes of ill-health and bad kamma is only one.
See:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=S ... and_health
See also:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Determinism
and:
http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Free_will


I agree that not every sickness or a having cold etc is due Kamma... but I really believe that
such life threatening sickness is a result of Kamma of this life or is the fruit of Kamma from previous lives
ripening during this life-time.

Am I that mislead? What do you think?

About this sentence I have a question too: http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=S ... and_health

...But the Buddha listed eight causes of sickness, only one of which is kamma ,



...does this mean, that only one cause of sickness is because of Kamma...which one is it? Or do I misunderstand?


With best regards
ShinMeiDokuJoh


Dear S,

But the Buddha listed eight causes of sickness, only one of which is kamma, the others being imbalance of bile, phlegm or wind, the bodily humors, the weather, improper care and accidents (S.IV,230).


You ask:
..does this mean, that only one cause of sickness is because of Kamma...which one is it? Or do I misunderstand?


The Buddha spoke here of kammic reasons for sickliness: but your disease could very well be caused by the other 7. He also warned us of speculating about kamma. :hug:

"There is the case where a woman or man is one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is sickly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to sickliness: to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.


Like I said, it could also be improper care, or an imbalance somewhere. You can do a lot after your recovery to prevent other diseases from arising.

More here:

By Will Dunham Mon Jun 16, 9:21 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Comprehensive lifestyle changes including a better diet and more exercise can lead not only to a better physique, but also to swift and dramatic changes at the genetic level, U.S. researchers said on Monday.

In a small study, the researchers tracked 30 men with low-risk prostate cancer who decided against conventional medical treatment such as surgery and radiation or hormone therapy.

The men underwent three months of major lifestyle changes, including eating a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes and soy products, moderate exercise such as walking for half an hour a day, and an hour of daily stress management methods such as meditation.

As expected, they lost weight, lowered their blood pressure and saw other health improvements. But the researchers found more profound changes when they compared prostate biopsies taken before and after the lifestyle changes.

After the three months, the men had changes in activity in about 500 genes -- including 48 that were turned on and 453 genes that were turned off.

The activity of disease-preventing genes increased while a number of disease-promoting genes, including those involved in prostate cancer and breast cancer, shut down, according to the study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The research was led by Dr. Dean Ornish, head of the Preventive Medicine Research Institute in Sausalito, California, and a well-known author advocating lifestyle changes to improve health.

"It's an exciting finding because so often people say, 'Oh, it's all in my genes, what can I do?' Well, it turns out you may be able to do a lot," Ornish, who is also affiliated with the University of California, San Francisco, said in a telephone interview.
"'In just three months, I can change hundreds of my genes simply by changing what I eat and how I live?' That's pretty exciting," Ornish said. "The implications of our study are not limited to men with prostate cancer."


Ornish said the men avoided conventional medical treatment for prostate cancer for reasons separate from the study. But in making that decision, they allowed the researchers to look at biopsies in people with cancer before and after lifestyle changes.

"It gave us the opportunity to have an ethical reason for doing repeat biopsies in just a three-month period because they needed that anyway to look at their clinical changes (in their prostate cancer)," Ornish said.



Gute Besserung, Liebes, und denk positiv. Du schaffst das. :smile:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Annapurna
 
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:57 am

Hi Shin,

I just found this thread today. I see others have already given great advice.

Gute Ratschläge, wie bereits erwähnt. Möge es Ihnen gut.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8107
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby ShinMeiDokuJoh » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:15 am

retrofuturist wrote:(...) Unwholesome mindstates such as those which underpin unwholesome actions (aka 'bad kamma') can manifest themselves in illness. Just by way of example, think about stress and the effects it can have on the body. But of course, as the Buddha points out, kamma is not the only cause of sickness.
To put illness down to kamma though is an imprecise science (unless you yourself are a Buddha) and one that ultimately achieves nothing, because the past is past, and you can only work on the present and in time, the future.

Dear Retro,
Thanks a lot for your response and good advice. Reading also from what the others posted here I was thinking the wrong way, putting illness
as result of bad Kamma...as I am really not a Buddha and really far away from insight.
Some years ago I suffered (because from stress and I like what you said 'unwholesome mindstates') from a lot of infections, during 10-11 months
I got from the doctors like 7-8 times antibiotica, and nothing helped. Then I went twice to SriLanka to Ayurveda treatment, they diagnized too much Pitta and after those treatments I never got infections again.
So, after the hospital treatments I am going again to SriLanka for Ayurved treatments, by then having worked on my unwholesome mindstates.

To answer Peters question:
Peter wrote:
ShinMeiDokuJoh wrote:I really believe that such life threatening sickness is a result of Kamma of this life or is the fruit of Kamma from previous lives ripening during this life-time.

Why do you believe this?


How to explain, I don't try or didn't try to analyse the past lifes regarding Kammic consequences from these times,
as they are past and not reachable for me. I believe this from a naive or deluded point of view, that such an illness had to be
a Kammic consequence, like Retro said: imprecise science.


Dear Annabel,

Annabel wrote:(...) The Buddha spoke here of kammic reasons for sickliness: but your disease could very well be caused by the other 7. He also warned us of speculating about kamma.
(...)

Thanks a lot for for the texts and links . Great advice, I'll work them through.


So, dear all, thanks a lot for helping me, giving good advice :group:

Tomorrow I'll head for the hospital. So I guess in some 2-3 weeks I come back here,

With best regards
ShinMeiDokuJoh
Pali in Thai Script: http://paliinthaiscript.blogspot.com

Pali Sutta, Gatha and Paritta in Thai Script: http://sutta-sutra-pali-in-thai-script-lette.blogspot.com
User avatar
ShinMeiDokuJoh
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 am
Location: Germany

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:21 pm

Be well. :)
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
kc2dpt
 
Posts: 956
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Bad Kamma

Postby Annapurna » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:32 pm

ShinMeiDokuJoh wrote:

Dear Annabel,

Annabel wrote:(...) The Buddha spoke here of kammic reasons for sickliness: but your disease could very well be caused by the other 7. He also warned us of speculating about kamma.
(...)

Thanks a lot for for the texts and links . Great advice, I'll work them through.

With best regards
ShinMeiDokuJoh


Ayurveda is very good for you. Best wishes, S. :heart:

Wenn ich dir helfen kann, ich bin Heilpraktikerin.

Annabel
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Annapurna
 
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany


Return to General Theravāda discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], palchi and 8 guests