dhamma_spoon wrote:The 'death' and 'rebirth' in every moment is just a logical deduction and extrapolation of the original dependent origination (Paticcasamuppada) Teachings in the Suttanta Pitaka. In my sincere opinion such extrapolation is not wrong, although it is not necessary for the understanding of the Four Noble Truths.
its clumsy logic because is overnegates the subject youre supposed to be realizing.
youre supposed to understand that you are momentary, not that you turn into something else in the next moment.
youre supposed to understand how its your nature to disintegrate over time (moment-by-moment), simply due to the fact that you were born. the point is not that youre actually 1000 individual people over the course of a second instead of 1 person over the course of that second.
Hi, Sheaps and PeterB, -
I agree with you, Sheaps, that it is a misunderstanding when one sees different persons, or beings, undergoing the process of birth-and-death every second like that. Such a mininterpretation of the Dependent Origination principle would obstruct realization of the noble truths.
PeterB wrote: "Back to your point..yes puntarbhava can be read both ways. Which is why there is no need for disgreement.
The important thing is what goes on on the cushions. At different times I have held a literal post mortem view of punarbhava and a view that was more agnostic about post mortem states. What didnt change was what I did on the meditation cushion, and the motive for that, to end suffering."
Dhamma_spoon: Talking about ending suffering, there is a special insight knowledge called "knowledge of comprehension" in the Patisambhidamagga (Path of Discrimination). It is very relevant to our discussion and I want to share it with you.
Ptsm I, 280. "Understanding of defining, after generalization, thus 'Materiality, whether past, future or present, is impermanent, formed, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to fall, subject to fading away, subject to cessation' is knowledge of comprehension. Understanding of defining, after generalization, thus 'Feeling, ...Perception, ... Formations, ... Consciousness, whether past, future or present, is impermanent, formed, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, subject to fall, subject to fading away, subject to cessation' is knowledge of comprehension. ... ... "
Please observe the three time periods -- past, future or present -- but there is no mentioning of rebirth and death in the 'present moment' or 'from moment to moment'. The concept of "moment-to-moment" dependent origination is an extension from the original Pali text -- that's why you cannot find it in the Ptsm or in the suttas.