PeterB wrote:Again with the " mental "....
Anyway..... either model works. Starting with Ignorance and Contact...certainly paticcasamuppada does not need to commence with physical birth as an infant to function as an explanation of the arising of phenomena ( see Buddhadasa ) In fact Buddhadasa says that to view paticcasamuppada as relating simply to physical birth is to miss its true import.
And what, bhikkhus, is birth? The birth of the various beings into the various orders of beings, their being born, descent (into the womb), production (abhinibbatti= rebirth), the manifestation of the aggregates, the obtaining of the sense bases. This is called birth." The meaning of the term `various orders of beings', is fully brought out by a passage in another sutta specifically dealing with Dependent Origination, the Mahanidana Sutta (DN 15): "With birth as condition there is aging and death. How that is so, Ananda, should be understood in this way. If there were absolutely and utterly no birth of any kind anywhere - that is, of gods into the state of gods, of celestials into the state of celestials, of spirits, demons, human beings, quadrupeds, winged creatures, reptiles, each into their own state - if there were no birth of beings, of any sort into any state, then, in the complete absence of birth, with the cessation of birth, would aging and death be discerned?" "Certainly not, venerable sir."3 Again, it is quite clear here that birth means what we would normally consider it to be: the arising in the human realm of a being in the womb.
PeterB wrote:In the what ?
There is seeing. There is consciousness. There are cognitions. Is there an entity or sub entity that is seeing, or is conscious or is having cognitions ?
PeterB wrote:Well Stefan has kindly provided the other model Sunrise.
PeterB wrote:Is there an entity or sub entity that is seeing, or is conscious or is having cognitions ?
Sunrise wrote:Is birth here physical birth or mental (the birth of the "I"). What do you think?
PeterB wrote:The point I am trying to make Sunrise is that the" mind " is a construct that comes from western concepts.
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