I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

I Believe in Literal Rebirth

Yes
44
58%
No
7
9%
Indifferent
8
11%
Undecided
10
13%
Meaning of Topic Unclear
7
9%
 
Total votes : 76

I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Will » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:14 pm

Let us crunch the numbers on Dhamma Wheel and see where we stand.

Edited to add a 5th option and now folks can change their vote.

Literal rebirth is simply ordinary, life after lifetime rebirth. Some Buddhists make a fetish of moment-to-moment rebirth of thoughts and deny or ignore the truth of many lives of rebirth in samsara. So "literal" means conventional & ordinary, not moment-to-moment.
Last edited by Will on Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
This noble eightfold path is the ancient path traveled by all the Buddhas of eons past. Nagara Sutta
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:17 pm

Why ?
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:19 pm

Would you please define in short what exactely you mean by "rebirth"?
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:24 pm

And what purpose your poll has.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:14 pm

Wife:

"Have you been drinking...?"
tries to sniff at husband's breath..

Husband:

"Would you please define :quote: drinking :quote: ? And why would you ask something like this to begin with...?"
:evil:

:rofl:
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:56 pm

I find it disappointing that a request for clarity regarding a poll should be likened to having too much to drink.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:02 pm

Oh geez why does everything have to be so difficult around here. If your not interested in participating in a simple poll then dont. Its not a presidential election. No need to question his motivation or intention. Thats up to him to look at for himself not anyone else.

I voted undecided Will.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:23 pm

Quite right Bodom.

It's just a harmless poll, and imo there is no need to clarify, justify or define it, it is already clear.

If you don't like the poll, simply disregard it.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:39 pm

But how am I supposed to know how to answer when I don't have a clue what is meant with rebirth? Is meant what I think rebirth is or something else? A simple and short definition in few words would be enough. Otherwise this poll would be absolutely meaningless, if it doesn't matter what the question is. I definitly don't want to go in for any discussion about rebirth. If it's inappropriate to ask, my apologies...

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby PeterB » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:45 pm

And what does " believe " mean in this context ?
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:19 pm

Gentlemen I think you are way too humble.

And you are not forced to reply to threads.


:focus:
Last edited by Annapurna on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:21 pm

Annapurna wrote::quote: drinking :quote:

bodom wrote:have to be so difficult around here

Annapurna wrote:There is no need to clarify, it is already clear.

:jawdrop:
Buddhists! :embarassed:
Sorry Will, I don't know what rebirth means either. Looking at the confusion in other rebirth threads here, I think answering Acinteyyo's request is the only way to get anything useful from this poll.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:33 pm

acinteyyo wrote:But how am I supposed to know how to answer when I don't have a clue what is meant with rebirth? Is meant what I think rebirth is or something else? A simple and short definition in few words would be enough. Otherwise this poll would be absolutely meaningless, if it doesn't matter what the question is. I definitly don't want to go in for any discussion about rebirth. If it's inappropriate to ask, my apologies...

best wishes, acinteyyo


There are only two types of rebirth discussed in Buddhism. momentary and literal.

The OP specified already.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Annapurna » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:34 pm

Sorry , Lojong, but this is a poll, and not a clarification thread.

The first post clearly says:

Let us crunch the numbers on Dhamma Wheel and see where we stand.

Nothing else.

People who want to discuss and clarify are welcome in the discussion threads.

:focus:
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:37 pm

Its not at all clear. people are being asked to vote without the terms being clarified. Its null and void.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:42 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Its not at all clear. people are being asked to vote without the terms being clarified. Its null and void.


Literal rebirth = many lifetimes, rebirth after physical death, arising in another plane of existence after death, etc. etc.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby bodom » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:49 pm

I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two... five, ten... fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details. — MN 36


:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:53 pm

Thanks Bodom.

That's the clearest post on rebirth in a long time... :anjali:

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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby lojong1 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:54 pm

Okay I'll do the clarifying.
Wiki: "Rebirth in Buddhism is the doctrine that the evolving consciousness (Pali: samvattanika-viññana) or stream of consciousness (Pali: viññana-sotam] upon "the dissolution of the aggregates" (P. khandhas), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation.

One reason for confusion is that many people who claim NOT to believe in 'rebirth', would still agree that this here rebirth does happen.
Annapurna, you're not forced to reply to replies.
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Re: I Believe in Literal Rebirth - Poll

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:01 pm

bodom wrote:
I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two... five, ten... fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details. — MN 36


:anjali:

Precisely. I am not a Buddhadasa follower, but we know how he would interpret that with no reference at all to after death states.
And " undecided " means nothing. I would imagine that those who avoid being drawn on the subject would reject the idea that they are undecided.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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