Poll on Belief.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

If post Mortem Rebirth was proven beyond doubt, how would it affect your practice?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:35 pm

A lot
8
23%
A little
9
26%
Not at all
18
51%
 
Total votes : 35

Poll on Belief.

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:35 pm

It might be interesting to do a qualitative poll.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:34 pm

PeterB wrote:It might be interesting to do a qualitative poll.


Why? Whats your agenda? :tongue:

I would practice harder so as to avoid the hell realms.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:56 pm

Wouldn't it be better to get over such kind of speculation?
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Sobeh » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:56 pm

Post-mortem rebirth being proven beyond a doubt is a state of affairs that does not obtain in the world; therefore, it is idle speculation, and to be wholly put aside.

That there is suffering is a state of affairs that does obtain in the world; therefore it is pertinent to the holy life.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby SDC » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:03 pm

bodom wrote:Why? Whats your agenda? :tongue:



Yeah. Explain what you mean by "proven". This is not detailed enough. I'm starting to get stressed out! I can't vote with so little explanation of what I am voting about!



All in good fun, PB. :tongue:



I assume it would have a substantial affect on my practice. But as far as I am concerned I am practicing the best that I can with the time and knowledge that I have. My trust and devotion in the teachings would definitely go through the roof, but I still would have the same amount of work ahead of me.

Bottom line...it would be good thing.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:07 pm

Is it any more an invitation to speculate would you say Sobeh than asking what people believe ?
Which assuming we are not Enlightened, also pertains to knowledge which is a matter of speculation ?

Which of course answers you Bodom...Of course I had an agenda.
That was it.
Its an anti poll, poll.

Back on E Sangha I posted a poll to ask opinions about banning polls. But it was modded... :smile:
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Annapurna » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:18 pm

.....Sorry, my teacher said speculations are better avoided....
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:22 pm

I agree entirely Anna. Thats what I have been arguing on the Rebirth poll. I dont know if post mortem Rebirth is true, just as I dont know if it is untrue and I dont intend to speculate.
I do intend to continue practising Vipassana , and one day I might know beyond speculation.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Sobeh » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:28 pm

PeterB wrote:Is it any more an invitation to speculate would you say Sobeh than asking what people believe ?


I'm not sure what you're asking me.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:32 pm

PeterB wrote:I do intend to continue practising Vipassana , and one day I might know beyond speculation.


Hear Hear!

:toast:

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Annapurna » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:13 pm

PeterB wrote:I agree entirely Anna. Thats what I have been arguing on the Rebirth poll. I dont know if post mortem Rebirth is true, just as I dont know if it is untrue and I dont intend to speculate.
I do intend to continue practising Vipassana , and one day I might know beyond speculation.


And Peter, I respect it when you say that you don't know. I appreciate such honesty!

For some reason, I never doubted,..to me all that makes sense...it seems logical...hm...but I know and accept that there are many individual POVs.

Metta,

Anna
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:50 am

There's a moderately good steampunk SF novel around in which the world is very obviously a constructed object, created by some being/s clearly far superior to mankind. The question as its core is "If God demonstrably exists, how does that affect attitudes to God?"
The answer is not as obvious as the one that may spring to mind, because answering the question forces an examination of the difference between 'knowledge' and 'belief'.
It wouldn't be too hard to make parallels with this poll question.
:namaste:
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Sunrise » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:06 am

Not at all. I practice for the here and now
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby PeterB » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:58 am

Annapurna wrote:
PeterB wrote:I agree entirely Anna. Thats what I have been arguing on the Rebirth poll. I dont know if post mortem Rebirth is true, just as I dont know if it is untrue and I dont intend to speculate.
I do intend to continue practising Vipassana , and one day I might know beyond speculation.


And Peter, I respect it when you say that you don't know. I appreciate such honesty!

For some reason, I never doubted,..to me all that makes sense...it seems logical...hm...but I know and accept that there are many individual POVs.

Metta,

Anna

Anna I dont doubt...that would need a situation where there are the facts and one takes them or leaves them. I think that the whole question is far more subtle than that...what do we accept or doubt ?
I could point you to a number of different respected commentators with each having a different tale on the issue. So which should we accept ? On the surface it would appear that their is a consensus about what the Buddha taught about Rebirth, and that we either accept it or not.
Dig a little deeper and we find that its not that easy..there is a consensus about what the Buddha did NOT teach. He did not teach a reincarnated soul or atta. But when we ask what he DID teach it becomes much more complex.
And in the end can probably only be understood fully on the cushion after much meditation and the application of sila..
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Ben » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:05 am

I am finding the sensitivity regarding this poll question quite surprising.
But to answer the question, I voted 'it wouldn't make any difference to my practice'.
Like you Peter, I neither believe nor disbelieve, yet have witnessed the effects of Dhamma in my own life.
The samvega is strong.
metta

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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Jos » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:54 am

I would say that I don't beleive nor beleive, for the moment I just don't know. I also think, well, if I practice in the right way, I may have a direct experience of that one day... and/or if I can be really mindful at the time of death, I may see what's going on...

But to know for sure that there is a continuity after death, a new existence which is related to what I'm doing in this one, would most likely change something in my practice/life.

:anjali:
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby lojong1 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:30 am

My great-grandfather was born and died, then I was born sometime after that. If birth hadn't happened more than once, I reckon there would be no me to have a practice.
'Rebirth' always involves a process of birth that happens again, but not necessarily a birth happening more than once to any one particular aspect of a being.
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby curiousgeorge » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 am

SDC wrote:I assume it would have a substantial affect on my practice. But as far as I am concerned I am practicing the best that I can with the time and knowledge that I have. My trust and devotion in the teachings would definitely go through the roof, but I still would have the same amount of work ahead of me.

Bottom line...it would be good thing.


Accurate knowledge is never a bad thing!

I generally concur with this post. My faith in the teachings would indeed be bolstered, and I would shift strategies to try to understand it in different ways. Perhaps this would ironically be less effective?
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby Annapurna » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:49 am

Peter, we have a saying:

To believe means not to know.

So if you* (general) don't know, you have 2 options:

1.) To say: I don't know, -and don't trust anybody who says he knows,

2.) To say: I have faith this is so, because somebody I trust says it is so.

.....

Agree?
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Re: Poll on Belief.

Postby PeterB » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:46 am

Or you can say 3) I had two highly respected Theravadin teachers..one of whom openly accepted literal Rebirth and one would not be drawn either way on the issue. The fact is Anna that even if I actually did support one view over the other , I would not tell you ( plural ) because as it stands in 2010 debate about it is the single most divisive element in Dhamma circles. Which was the point of this poll.
The definitive post has already been made on the Belief in Rebirth poll imo.
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