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Experience (of?) Nibbana - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Experience (of?) Nibbana

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Will
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Will » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:10 pm

Last edited by Will on Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

rowyourboat
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby rowyourboat » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:54 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Kenshou
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Kenshou » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:21 pm

Okay. Thank you for elaborating. It's good to know more about all the different approaches that're out there.

My only other question I suppose, and this may not have an answer other than "that's just how it happens", and maybe that is just how it works with vipassana (I would not know since don't do it), but I don't yet understand why the phala "experience" is necessary to break the fetters. Keyword being "necessary", since I can understand how such experiences could be powerful and useful. I guess this boils down to as has been gone over in the thread, that I am skeptical that "nibbanic experiences" require a lack of perception( or consciousness for some). Though I recognize that the thing exists, a la the animitto sutta. Perhaps vipassana just happens to usually lead to the "signless" liberation, for whatever reason. I'm also skeptical that such a thing needs to occur for each "path", but I guess this comes back to the question of why it is necessary for the elimination of fetters.

Forgive my incessant prodding. It's an interesting topic.

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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Nyana » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:29 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:06 am

Hi Geoff,

Perhaps you could clarify my understanding of what I quoted from Ven Nanananda above at the bottom of this post:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5339#p83074
(Or go directly to .)
Footnotes 9 and 10 refer to a particular "very unusual kind of 'jhaana' or 'samaadhi'", which implies that it is not the "normal state of the Arahant", but happens only during the awakening experience (though it can be re-entered later).

Am I interpreting this correctly?

:anjali:
Mike

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ground
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby ground » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:36 am


Nyana
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Nyana » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:28 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:39 am

Thanks Geoff,

So would it be correct to say that you (and presumably Ven Nanananda, judging from those passages) see the fruition attainments as somewhat similar to the commentary versions (as far as that they are particular meditative states that are attained at fruition and can be revisited), but you would differ on some of the details of the fruition itself?

Mike

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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Kenshou » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:10 am

Oh, neat. Aññāphala samādhi is an idea that I completely forgot about.

So, correct me if I am wrong, there is said to be cessation of the sense-spheres because what is called contact is dependent upon the duality of the sense-faculty and it's object, a duality which is, though useful, ultimately papañca and conceptualization. This proliferation and conceptualization ends simultaneously with the culmination of the understanding of impermanence, at which point the mind ceases to get caught up with or grasp onto anything, that is, becomes unestablished and non-manifestive/non-proliferating, including the proliferation of self-identification and volitions of clinging and aversion (which might all be summed up under "non-fashioning). When the duality which supports the notion of contact is gone, there cannot really said to be contact, nor consciousness or the "loka" of the six sense spheres, though it isn't that they've literally vanished.

The scheme of dependent origination is itself a sort of "wholesome" papañca which, at the end of the path, also has to be released. And though the arahant can choose to interact with the world and make use of conventional conceptualizations, the yoke that would bind his mind to them are cut off. Am I wrong? My brain hurts.
Last edited by Kenshou on Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:12 am

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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby IanAnd » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:20 am

Last edited by IanAnd on Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby IanAnd » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:33 am

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

Kenshou
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Kenshou » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:20 am


SamKR
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby SamKR » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:13 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:19 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:23 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:29 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby Kenshou » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:07 pm


SamKR
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby SamKR » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:11 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Experience (of?) Nibbana

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:25 pm



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