Sunrise wrote:I see kamma within this lifetime as that is verifiable. If I direct my mind, words or body in misconduct in this life I will see the results of those in this lifetime. If I kill someone I will go to prison. Even if I didn't go to prison, I would still mentally suffer, feeling guilty, scared, angry, frustrated etc. Kamma, as I see it, is visible moment to moment. This moment's mentality/action effecting the mental or physical body in the next moment. If I get angry and scold someone, I may feel upset for some time. If I plan to lie to my boss, I will feel anxious when I walk into office. The results of the way you direct your mind is visible in that moment or later
Having said that, the Buddha has advised in the AN not to speculate about kamma and results. IMO, it is unhealthy and useless to speculate such as "I am poor today because I didn't give enough to the poor in my previous birth" etc. That doesn't make much sense except maybe for morality
If I get angry and scold someone, I may feel upset for some time. If I plan to lie to my boss, I will feel anxious when I walk into office. The results of the way you direct your mind is visible in that moment or later
Yes, smaller offences work in that way, I totally agree with you.
I also agree with you that he said speculating about kamma is useless, but he also laid out in detail what can be expected after what.
5. "Here, student, some woman or man is a killer of living beings, murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings. Due to having performed and completed such kammas, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. If, on the dissolution of the body, after death, instead of his reappearing in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell, he comes to the human state, he is short-lived wherever he is reborn. This is the way that leads to short life, that is to say, to be a killer of living beings, murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings.
The shorter exposition of kamma
Even if I didn't go to prison, I would still mentally suffer, feeling guilty, scared, angry, frustrated etc. Kamma, as I see it, is visible moment to moment.
I also agree with you that some criminals will feel guilty and will regret.....but it requires an understanding of right and wrong and compassion, but some don''t haved that,...compared to the immense suffering they caused.
We know that many criminals don't regret, -some have no compassion, as a 'mental disorder', and really enjoy remembering their crimes and watching their videos, so actually, they're in "heaven", while doing so...!
And if a perpetrator suddenly dies, like in his sleep, without having suffered an equivalent of the suffering he caused to the victims and their suffering what's up with the kamma that is left? It can't be "leveled" in this life anymore, because life is over.
So does kamma vanish with his body?
I also don't think that the suffering a murderer goes through by spending time in jail or on deathrow will be an equivalent of the sufferings his victms went through, if you think of serial killers like Ted Bundy or Jürgen Bartsch.
Jürgen Bartsch was a sadistic serial killer who tortured 4 boys to death, by cutting off their fingers and limbs piece by piece, alive. He found they died too quickly, so he did his best that they stayed alive long enough to enjoy their suffering.
It took days til they died with cut off fingers.
One youth managed to escape and Jürgen Bartsch was captured. He said he really regretted his deeds, but couldn't help it. He said he would do it again if he ever got out again.
And so he agreed to a castration, but peacefully died during the operation.
We can't measure suffering, how could we possibly know?
But somehow, his own suffering seems unproportional to the excruciating pain, panic, desparation and deep sadness his young victims went through, 4 lives gone there, only 1 on his side, 4 horrible deaths... are they equivalent to one whilst asleep, is dying with all ten fingers intact equivalent to dying with all 10 cut off while conscious, and not in one cut, no...
Sitting in jail and getting food and talking to lawyers and psychiatrists...does it makes up for the suffering that was done to young people and what was done to their poor parents, who will never get over it, is that kamma really dealt with in this life, it as you say, and as you say speculation is pointless, but I personally think, there is an imbalance.
Since I accept multiple lives, I think there is a good chance this kamma will affect future lives.
Just some thoughts, and nobody has to agree, needless to say.