Would a buddhist monk...

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Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:07 am

tell: "I am a Monk."?
Would a Buddhist monk tell: "I am a Buddhist."?
Would a follower of the path call him self a Buddhist?

...from the view of practice, except of situations where one is needed to answer ( local law)
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:45 pm

He might say that, but his mind should remain clear.

In other words, he uses conventional language, but not conventional thinking.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:53 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Individual » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:01 pm

Hanzze wrote:
Individual wrote:He might say that, but his mind should remain clear.

In other words, he uses conventional language, but not conventional thinking.

Good solution, but wouldn't it in this case a lie? A tactic?

It is a lie, but the monk did not create it. He merely accepts the lie and gives it back, to avoid too much confusion.

Because it is not always possible or necessary to explain anatta. Many suttas are written about anatta, but people might read them and still not understand.

So, you have to use conventional language, or people will think you are crazy or stupid.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:20 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby plwk » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:38 am

Does it matter?
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:47 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Goedert » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:36 am

Friend,

Everything is possible to do in the world. Didn't You know that a monk could say such things as you describe?
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby appicchato » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:45 am

When knowing the mind of the other...

We don't even know our own minds...seeing, or knowing, another's is pretty unrealistic...
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:30 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:33 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:34 am

When I enter Thailand there is a question on the immigration card that asks what is my occupation.I would have to state Monk.
I was also reading something by Ven.Yuttadhammo on his website.He is somewhere in California and people ask him what he is,many of them never seeing a monk walking their streets before.Should he remain silent?No, he can answer that he is a buddhist monk.As monks we are dealing with non monastics all of the time and have to speak in conventional language unless we are explaining certain aspects of the dhamma.If a person,especially a non buddhist asks, are you a monk I can not really start saying things like-no monk-no me-no you.I would consider this to be un-beneficial speech that would merely create confusion and why would I wish to add confusion where confusion already exists?
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Sylvester » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:17 am

Hanzze wrote:
Individual wrote:It is a lie, but the monk did not create it. He merely accepts the lie and gives it back, to avoid too much confusion.

Because it is not always possible or necessary to explain anatta. Many suttas are written about anatta, but people might read them and still not understand.

So, you have to use conventional language, or people will think you are crazy or stupid.

That would maybe the point if two monks are meeting. :-)

Questioned by a layman? Knowing the layman is deep attached with concept of somebody in a orange robe.



Indeed, which seems to be what happened when a young and cheeky Ven Brahmavamso met the Taungpulu Sayadaw and asked him, "Who's answering these questions?"

The sayadaw answered - "Nama".
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:18 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:20 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:58 am

In the field of unreal and relative(pannatti)we use the terms-man,woman,dog,cat etc.
For example you have a user name-Hanzze.I also have a user name-Nanadhaja-This identifies you and me in an unreal and relative way.
The other day you sent me a PM to ask a question.Suppose all of here instead of using pannatti decided to use the terms of real and absolute(paramattha)
Your user name would be rupa,my user name would be rupa and all the other peoples names would be rupa.
How would you know which rupa to PM and how would the rupa that received the PM know which rupa had PM'd them?
So you see it is necessary to speak conventionally.
In Cambodia when you go to a stall to get some food and you want a bowl of noodles,you ask for a bowl of noodles and they give them to you.If you go to the stall and say "Rupa would like a rupa of rupa"my guess is that Rupa will start to feel a bit like a peta. :thinking:
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
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And meaning
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:26 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:28 am

Hanzze wrote:tell: "I am a Monk."?
Would a Buddhist monk tell: "I am a Buddhist."?
Would a follower of the path call him self a Buddhist?

...from the view of practice, except of situations where one is needed to answer ( local law)


Okay, here goes:

I am a monk.
I am a buddhist.

So yes, a buddhist monk would. :smile:
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:32 am

Thus a stanza of the Sūtra of the Questions of the Devas (Devaparipṛcchāsūtra) says:

If he is an arhat bhikṣu
Whose impurities have been destroyed,
And who is in his very last existence,
Can he say: It is I?

The Buddha replies:

An arhat bhikṣu
Whose impurities have been destroyed
And who is in his very last existence
Can say: It is I.155

In current usage (lokadharma), we speak of the ātman, but not from the absolute (paramārtha), true point of view, for all dharmas are empty (śūnya) and devoid of substantial self (anātmaka). In current usage there is nothing wrong in speaking of ātman.


155 Sutta, entitled Arahaṃ, of the Saṃyutta, I, p. 14; Tsa a han, T 99 (no. 581), k 22, p. 154b-c; T 100 (no. 166), k. 9, p. 435c: yo hoti bhikkhu arahaṃ.... pi so vadeyya (iti devata). yo hoti bhikkhu katāvī.... vohāramattena so vohareyya (iti Bhagavā). Buddhaghosa interprets this sutta in the same way in the Sārattha, I, p. 51.
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Re: Would a buddhist monk...

Postby Hanzze » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:08 pm

Dear Paññāsikhara,

thanks for your Dana.
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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