Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:38 pm

Alex123 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Why would an arahant khimself? What motivation would there be? Dukkha? That is the underlying motivation of most worldy suicides.


Why not? Why couldn't Arahant kill himself to stop painful bodily feelings?
Sounds like aversion.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:44 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Alex123 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Why would an arahant khimself? What motivation would there be? Dukkha? That is the underlying motivation of most worldy suicides.


Why not? Why couldn't Arahant kill himself to stop painful bodily feelings?
Sounds like aversion.


Merely a decision to avoid painful feeling. Why feel so much pain when you can end it?


If an arahant is walking and sees a cliff on the path, would he walk around the cliff or walk off a cliff and severely get hurt?

Was his choice to change the walking path due to aversion to falling of the cliff, or was it due to avoiding painful feelings?
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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:47 pm

I think an arahanth would see pain as pain and not something he wants to go through again and again. Even the Buddha requested his robes to be folded and made into a seat when he was quite old and his body was tired. I think the difference is that his mind is not shaken by the pain- there is no reaction, no agitation at all- the samadhi state would simply continue. However he would know through wisdom that this pain is a sign that the body needs a rest or needs food or needs to remove itself from the object which is causing it pain. So he would simply do that.

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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby Viscid » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 pm

rowyourboat wrote:I think the difference is that his mind is not shaken by the pain- there is no reaction, no agitation at all- the samadhi state would simply continue. However he would know through wisdom that this pain is a sign that the body needs a rest or needs food or needs to remove itself from the object which is causing it pain. So he would simply do that.


Aye, rationality decrees that if you're experiencing pain, it's likely best for your health and well-being to mitigate its cause. Embracing pain without reason is simply self-destructive.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:49 pm

Viscid wrote: Embracing pain without reason is simply self-destructive.



Right. Maybe that was one of the reasons that Buddha relinquished his vitality/fabrications. His old body was giving Hi, lots of painful feelings. His Dhamma was set. He has done his mission (which required Brahma to beg Him to do). Buddha had no clinging to life.
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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby Individual » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:57 pm

i think an arahant would

i dont think an arahant would

an arahant would

an arahant wouldn't

i think the buddha

but the buddha is, isn't, would, and would not

Alex123 wrote:Why feel so much pain when you can end it?
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby clw_uk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:13 pm

Alex123 wrote:
Why feel so much pain when you can end it


Some people do because there is no wisdom
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Suicide and Euthanasia according to Theravada

Postby Alex123 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:10 pm

clw_uk wrote:Some people do because there is no wisdom


Are you saying that Buddha had no wisdom?

Maybe some hasten their parinibbana to end dukkha.

Even the Buddha could experience Dukkha, kilamatho and vihesā.


"At present I am living hemmed in by bhikkhus and bhikkhunis... by sectarian teachers and their disciples, and I live in discomfort and not at ease. Ākiṇṇo dukkhaṃ. Na phāsu viharati. Suppose I were to live alone, secluded from the crowd?"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#pts.041



"Then the thought occurred to me, 'This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. [3] But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment. For a generation delighting in attachment, excited by attachment, enjoying attachment, this/that conditionality & dependent co-arising are hard to see. This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding
And if I were to teach the Dhamma and others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me ...so mamassa kilamatho, sā mamassa vihesāti.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


kilamatho =fatigue; weariness.
vihesā= vexation; annoyance; injury.So not only in Ud 4.5 , but in MN26 we have another example of what can occur to the Buddha.
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