a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

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a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:51 pm

Ive always been a little confused to "a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain"

Does it mean a feeling of indefference?
“Happy is the man who has broken the chains which hurt the mind, and has given up worrying once and for all.” Ovid
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:54 pm

Indifference, detachment or equanimity.

The word "equanimity" is used in the Canon in two basic senses: 1) a neutral feeling in the absense of pleasure and pain, and 2) an attitude of even-mindedness in the face of every sort of experience, regardless of whether pleasure and pain are present or not. The attitude of even-mindedness is what is meant here.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#part3-g

:namaste:
Last edited by bodom on Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby Jechbi » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:57 pm

I think it means a feeling that isn't particularly pleasant or unpleasant, but just neutral. For example, if you put your hand on the table, it feels like a table top. (As opposed to, say, the unpleasant feeling of putting your hand on a hot stovetop burner, or the pleasant feeling of putting your hand on a warm kitten.)

But, no, this has nothing at all to do with indifference. Neutral feelings can be very engaging.

Just my 2 cents ...

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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:00 pm

Thanks BBB

so when it says

without uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, without abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing — would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing isn't possible.


It means one becomes attached to a feeling of detachment?
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:06 pm

clw_uk wrote:Thanks BBB

so when it says

without uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, without abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing — would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing isn't possible.


It means one becomes attached to a feeling of detachment?


Yes but its a very subtle form of attachment hard to see or feel, until conditions change! Then watch out! :lol: You can then see the subtle attachment that is there in the feeling of equanimity.

:namaste:
Last edited by bodom on Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:16 pm

Jechbi wrote:I think it means a feeling that isn't particularly pleasant or unpleasant, but just neutral. For example, if you put your hand on the table, it feels like a table top. (As opposed to, say, the unpleasant feeling of putting your hand on a hot stovetop burner, or the pleasant feeling of putting your hand on a warm kitten.)

But, no, this has nothing at all to do with indifference. Neutral feelings can be very engaging.

Just my 2 cents ...

:smile:


Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw has used the word indifference to desrcribe equanimity. Indifference is not always used in the negative.

The expression "Brahmavihara", if analysed, will include metta, friendliness or loving-kindness, karuna, compassion, mudita, goodwill or rejoicing with others in their happiness or prosperity, and upekkha, equanimity or indifference to pain and pleasure. These are the four kinds of Brahmavihara.

http://www.buddhanet.net/brahmaviharas/bvd002.htm

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:21 pm

Thank you both :smile:

:namaste:
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby Jechbi » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:29 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw has used the word indifference to desrcribe equanimity. Indifference is not always used in the negative.

True. Thanks.
:namaste:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:43 pm

Jechbi wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw has used the word indifference to desrcribe equanimity. Indifference is not always used in the negative.

True. Thanks.
:namaste:


You bet.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain

Postby Element » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:48 pm

Buddha is referring to NEITHER pleasant nor unpleasant feeling, which results in the underlying tendency of ignorance or confusion to arise.

For example, we see a small green man walking upside-down on our ceiling. We look staring at it in befuddled amazement. We do not know what it is. It generates neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling in our mind. Our mind neither runs towards it with greed nor runs away from it with aversion. The mind circles around the little green man wondering about it, with confusion and ignorance.

Or when Africans or Amazonians in the jungle first saw the white man, with metal armor, white skin and all sorts of trinckets and things they never saw before. They stood their in amazement and wonder until they received a gunshoot wound or saw a few of their own dead. Then they understood the signifance.

Our mind does not understand its origin, its cessation, its attractiveness, its danger and the way to escape the danger. Buddha taught like this about neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling. (See MN 148 and the Pahana Sutta as examples).

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