Actors go to Hell?

[Lazy_eye]

You're right, only the missionary position for me from now on, plus any signs of pleasure from her , say little gasps, and I'll whip it out and threaten total abstention. That should do it.

Ah, but then maybe she'll leave you, and at last you'll be free to ordain! Great progress will have been made! And if she suffers because of the breakup -- well, the blame is on her for having abandoned the path of virtue.

Or, alternatively, she can opt to remain in an intimacy-free, emotionally sterile "relationship", and by conscientiously stifling her desires will accumulate some merit for the next life.

[rowyourboat]

Better to ordain if you want to go down that path

With metta

Matheesha

[phil]

It seems there is a bit of mockery about renunciation going on in this thread but I might be misunderstanding, there is subtle humour being used. In any case we all (well factors such as panna and virya do it) decide what kind of behaviour in body, speech and mind, what kind of volitions, what kind of lobha we are comfortable with accumulating on and on and on out of desire for comfort and to fit in with society's ways, and where there is aspiration to give them up or challenge their pull. That is the opportunity that is provided by being born in the human realm with a sensitivity to the Buddha's teaching, and fulfilled to a greater or lesser degree or in some cases completely missed. It's fascinating!

[Lazy_eye]

Not intending to mock renunciation. My point, FWIW, was that relationships by nature are involved with lobha -- it's practically the fuel that sustains them --and if one sets about trying to eliminate it without the partner's consent, the relationship will either end or suffer. Some rather monstrous situations can be envisaged. What makes for a happy marriage or romantic partnership isn't always (at least at the outset) conducive to swift spiritual progress, and vice versa.

In any case we all (well factors such as panna and virya do it) decide what kind of behaviour in body, speech and mind, what kind of volitions, what kind of lobha we are comfortable with accumulating on and on and on out of desire for comfort and to fit in with society's ways, and where there is aspiration to give them up or challenge their pull. That is the opportunity that is provided by being born in the human realm with a sensitivity to the Buddha's teaching, and fulfilled to a greater or lesser degree or in some cases completely missed.

[phil]

Not intending to mock renunciation. My point, FWIW, was that relationships by nature are involved with lobha -- it's practically the fuel that sustains them --and if one sets about unilaterally trying to eliminate it without the partner's consent, the relationship will either end or suffer. Some rather monstrous situations can be envisaged. What makes for a happy marriage or romantic partnership isn't always (at least at the outset) conducive to swift spiritual progress, and vice versa.

Yes, well said. I'm finally learning this after several relationships and one marriage than ended (well, is in the process of ending) because I am basically a person who is very, very happy by himself, and has a kind of natural inclination to aspire for various forms of renunciation that most people think are crazy or unhealthy. (See my "masturbating without a fantasy" post for example.) It will be interesting to see whether I have finally learned my lesson and can remain single (or possibly ordain) or will the accumulated defilements pull me back into another relationship. Of course there's no way to know, but it's very interesting and I am staying on my toes!

Your post was very, very helpful to me, thanks. "If one sets about unilaterally trying to eliminate it without the partner's consent...." Well said. Of course that was probably Robert K's point as well.

Having said that, it might be interesting to look at whether a sutta that is, as Cooran said, "upalatable" to modern sensibilities is being explained away or interpretted too freely for that reason.

[Lazy_eye]

Phil, your post was helpful to me also. As a married layperson (with a strong interest in/respect for the arts, including theatre) I struggle a great deal with the topics raised in this thread.

Whether you decide to ordain or not, may you find happiness in the path that you choose.

[Individual]

Cruel actors often engage in self-destructive behavior here and now.

[YouthThunder]

So what is the general interpretation of "hell of laughter"?

[Bagoba]

So what is the general interpretation of "hell of laughter"?

Really great post by Phil up there at 12:15 am by the way. That hit the spot.