World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20080
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:25 am

son of dhamma wrote:Do you know much about what was taking place doctrinally on the mainland? Anyone? I'd like to understand more in-depth the relation to the Buddha's teaching here.
with metta
I thought you said you were well read. You might avail yourself of some quality time spent with Rupert Gethin's THE FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM and A.K. Warder's INDIAN BUDDHISM and Peter Harvey's AN INTRODUCTION TO BUDDHISM: TEACHINGS, HISTORY AND PRACTICES and Paul William's BUDDHIST THOUGHT and J. Bronkhorst's BUDDHIST TEACHINGS IN INDIA and Richard Gombrich's WHAT THE BUDDHA THOUGHT.

And if you really want to impress the folks: E Lamotte's HISTORY OF INDIAN BUDDHISM.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

Paññāsikhara
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Contact:

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:43 am

And of course Bareau's 1955 Les Sectes Bouddhiques Du Petit Vehicule.

In particular, three main lines: Sarvastivada, Vatsiputriya / Sammitiya, and Mahasamghika. That would cover most of the Buddhist tradition over that time.

Please explain how the Buddha's teachings or his close commentators explained the thousandfold, millionfold, and billionfold world-systems. I haven't been able to find such concepts in the Theravada, but you've told me that pretty much the whole of Buddhism accepted this doctrine. I don't discredit the claim, but I can't find anything that penetrates the Theravada or the Buddha's original teaching. Where are the chiliocosms accepted?


I gave the sources in my first response. Try the Mahavibhasa, the Prajnapti Sastra, and Lokaprajnapti Sastra.
You may also wish to look at the Ekottaragama (and commentary) and biographical literature such as the Lalitavistara, Abhiniskramana, etc.
All are pretty much pre-Mahayana.

For post-/non-Mahayana, then the Kosa is a good place to start, and the critique of the Nyananusara. Also vague reference in the Vimuttimagga (I think).

Not at all sure what you mean by "can't find anything that penetrates the Theravada or the Buddha's original teaching". But the gist of the above is pretty clear as to where these teachings are coming from.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.

User avatar
son of dhamma
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:09 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Ponce de Leon Springs, Fl
Contact:

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby son of dhamma » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:57 pm

Indeed it is. Thanks very much friends.
with metta
Sometimes no Buddhas arise in the world. Sometimes they do. When it happens, it is for the welfare and happiness of men, out of compassion for all creatures. For a long, long time he has been working to become a Buddha. He met other Buddhas along the way. And after his long striving he attains his final life, yet not without showing everyone else how to get there.

Virgo
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby Virgo » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:56 am

tiltbillings wrote:
son of dhamma wrote:Do you know much about what was taking place doctrinally on the mainland? Anyone? I'd like to understand more in-depth the relation to the Buddha's teaching here.
with metta
I thought you said you were well read. You might avail yourself of some quality time spent with Rupert Gethin's THE FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM and A.K. Warder's INDIAN BUDDHISM and Peter Harvey's AN INTRODUCTION TO BUDDHISM: TEACHINGS, HISTORY AND PRACTICES and Paul William's BUDDHIST THOUGHT and J. Bronkhorst's BUDDHIST TEACHINGS IN INDIA and Richard Gombrich's WHAT THE BUDDHA THOUGHT.

And if you really want to impress the folks: E Lamotte's HISTORY OF INDIAN BUDDHISM.

Or better yet, just read the actual doctrines of the surviving schools, such as the Theravada Abhidhamma, the Sarvastivadan Abhidharma, and the Commentaries and treatises of Theravada and Mahayana traditions, all the way up to modern day Commentaries.

Kevin

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20080
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:00 am

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
son of dhamma wrote:Do you know much about what was taking place doctrinally on the mainland? Anyone? I'd like to understand more in-depth the relation to the Buddha's teaching here.
with metta
I thought you said you were well read. You might avail yourself of some quality time spent with Rupert Gethin's THE FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM and A.K. Warder's INDIAN BUDDHISM and Peter Harvey's AN INTRODUCTION TO BUDDHISM: TEACHINGS, HISTORY AND PRACTICES and Paul William's BUDDHIST THOUGHT and J. Bronkhorst's BUDDHIST TEACHINGS IN INDIA and Richard Gombrich's WHAT THE BUDDHA THOUGHT.

And if you really want to impress the folks: E Lamotte's HISTORY OF INDIAN BUDDHISM.

Or better yet, just read the actual doctrines of the surviving schools, such as the Theravada Abhidhamma, the Sarvastivadan Abhidharma, and the Commentaries and treatises of Theravada and Mahayana traditions, all the way up to modern day Commentaries.

Kevin
Hardly better yet. First of all, a lot of the stuff you listed is very hard to come by in English, and what is little is actually available in English, such as the Abhidharmakosa, is very expensive. Secondly, the books I listed are histories of Buddhist ideas, putting the various developments into their contexts relarive to vaious schools. This is not something that is going to be had by reading the raw texts. It is well worth having the contexts before or as one reads these texts, assuming one is trying to understand how the various schools relate to each other and developed over time.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby Individual » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:34 am

clw_uk wrote:What is the fruit of discussing it?

:goodpost:
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra

Virgo
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby Virgo » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:21 am

Individual wrote:
clw_uk wrote:What is the fruit of discussing it?

:goodpost:

Understanding.

Kevin

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 3579
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: World Cycles and Cosmic Systems

Postby clw_uk » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:32 am

Virgo wrote:
Individual wrote:
clw_uk wrote:What is the fruit of discussing it?

:goodpost:

Understanding.

Kevin



Understanding the Noble Eightfold Path?
“The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised." Verses on the Faith Mind, Sengcan


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests