The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Kim OHara
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:46 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:42 am


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Jechbi
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Ven. Bodhi's translation

Postby Jechbi » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:11 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:50 am

I looked at the Ratthapala Sutta too, and came to the same conclusion as Jechbi - it doesn't seem to be the sutta the OP was trying to find. Any other candidates in your collection, tilt?
:smile:

Kim

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:51 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:04 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:11 pm

:oops:
I only went to the top of the page, not the top of the thread. Sorry!
As regards the OP, I agree 100%.
The one I was looking at, and trying to find a source for, was the quote Roni brought into play.

:anjali:
Kim

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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:54 pm


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Jechbi
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Suffering and the end of suffering

Postby Jechbi » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:09 am


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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:28 am


PaulD
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby PaulD » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:12 pm

I'm agnostic but a good argument for theists against Buddhists would be that throughout history the western religions such as Christianity put more emphasis on taking care of the sick and the poor since Jesus said you will be judged on how you treat the least amongst you. On the other hand most Buddhists would think it is because of their karma that the individual is sick or poor so in order to "burn" their bad karma they must suffer otherwise they will have to pay the debt some other time any way.

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Kim OHara
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:09 am


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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:23 am


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uptuyou
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby uptuyou » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:34 am

Ultimately we can discuss these things until we are blue in the face. However, we will only know the truth of the questions at hand through silence. It is only through asking the question, "What am I?" That one begins to understand ones true nature and relationship with God, Atman, Allah or what-have-you.

gus
Profundity lies in the silence between the words.

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tiltbillings
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:53 am


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Kim OHara
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:22 am

:goodpost:
Well said, tilt!

- Kim

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Dhammanando
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:25 am

The "without a refuge/protector" translation supposes anabhissaro to be an adjective formed from "na abhissarati", the passive form of the verb abhisarati, from the root *sar (the same root as sarana, refuge).

The "without a Supreme God" translation, since it posits a connection between anabhissaro and issaro (God) would need to be formed from an entirely different root: *is or *iis. But since there is no such verb as abhissati or abhiissati, one would first need to form the noun issaro, then prefix it with abhi-, then add the negative an-.

Both ways are possible, but the second is extremely improbable, for had the word been formed in this way we should expect to meet with instances of the unnegated form 'abhissaro' in the sense of "Supreme God". But there is no such instantiation even in the commentaries, let alone the Suttas.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando

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uptuyou
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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby uptuyou » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:40 am

I know longer feel the need to ask the question"What am I". However, it can be quite revealing. It may not be for everyone.
I agree there is no question to ask; but not everyone is there yet. I hope I didn't offend anyone.
gus
Profundity lies in the silence between the words.

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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:45 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: The universe is without a refuge, without a Supreme God.

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:47 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .


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