The path is the goal, or is it?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Justsit
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The path is the goal, or is it?

Post by Justsit »

The path is the goal. :smile:
alan
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by alan »

No, it isn't. Your statement is nonsensical.
VeganLiz
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by VeganLiz »

Alan, you gotta rain on someone's parade?

Classy.
"My actions are my only true belongings." Thich Nhat Hanh
alan
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by alan »

Depends on your definition. I'm not going to accept illogical positions. And I'm not going to be nice for the sake of making people feel good when they say things that just don't make sense.
Staying true to reason, even if it makes you unpopular with the unreasonable--that is what I call Class.
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Ben
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by Ben »

Anyway...
Let's get back on topic!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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tiltbillings
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by tiltbillings »

Justsit wrote:The path is the goal. :smile:
alan wrote:No, it isn't. Your statement is nonsensical.
Actually, in a real it is, in that as the path is actualized by practicing it, by insight into it, by living it, the goal unfolds. The goal, in my opinion, is not some singular "a-ha" moment, but it is an unfolding, transformation over time.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
alan
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by alan »

Hmm...
Not sure if I understand that. But you are joking, right?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by tiltbillings »

alan wrote:Hmm...
Not sure if I understand that. But you are joking, right?
Deadly serious, but it would take a couple of texts and a few more words than 50 to make it clearer.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
alan
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by alan »

Well then because you are special, I give permission to go beyond 50 words.
Anyone? 300 words to explain the reasoning behind "goal is the path". The only rule is that you have to use logic. Plain, cold, hard logic.
Good luck.
Kenshou
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by Kenshou »

I could tell you in 301, but that would be too many.

Could you let us know, in 4 words, why we should indulge your preference for short posts?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by tiltbillings »

I think we are off-topic again. It might a new thread for you.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Do you have physical/spiritual goals?

Post by Ben »

alan wrote:Well then because you are special, I give permission to go beyond 50 words.
Anyone? 300 words to explain the reasoning behind "goal is the path". The only rule is that you have to use logic. Plain, cold, hard logic.
Good luck.
I have to agree with Tilt on this one, Alan.
Here's something from Ven Nyantiloka...
2. the road of moral & good living, the path of righteousness, with ref. to the moral standard (cp. the 10 commandments) & the way to salvation. The exegetic (edifying) etym. of magga in this meaning is "nibbān' atthikehi maggīyati (traced by those who are looking for N.), nibbānaŋ vā maggeti, kilese vā mārento gacchatī ti maggo" (VbhA 114). <-> Usually designated (a) the "ariya aṭṭhangika magga" or the "Noble Eightfold Path" (see aṭṭhangika). It is mentioned at many places, & forms the corner -- stone of the Buddha's teaching as to the means of escaping "dukkha" or the ills of life. It consists of 8 constituents, viz. sammā -- diṭṭhi, sammā -- sankappa, ˚vācā, ˚kammanta, ˚ājīva, ˚vāyāma, ˚sati, ˚samādhi, or right views, right aspirations, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right rapture. The 7 first constituents are at D ii.216 & M iii.71 enumd as requisites for sammā -- samādhi. The name of this table of ethical injunctions is given as "maggam uttamaŋ" at Sn 1130, i. e. the Highest Path. See for ref. e. g. Vin iii.93; iv.26; D ii.353; iii.102, 128, 284, 286; It 18; Nd1 292; Nd2 485; Vbh 104 sq. 235 sq., VbhA 114 sq. (its constituents in detail), 121, 216; Vism 509 sq. (where the 8 constituents are discussed). -- (b) as ariya magga: M iii.72; Pug 17; DA i.176 sq., 225 sq., 233; VbhA 373 sq.; ThA 205. <-> (c) as pañcangika or the Path of 5 constituents (the above first 2 and last 3): Dhs 89; Vbh 110 sq., 237 sq. -- (d) other expressions of same import: dhamma˚ Miln 21; magga alone; S i.191 (Bhagavā maggassa uppādetā etc.)=M iii.9=S iii.66; Sn 429, 441, 724 sq., 1130; Dh 57, 273 sq., It 106; VbhA 53, 73. As the first condition & initial stage to the attainment of Arahantship (Nibbāna) it is often found in sequence of either magga -- phala -- nirodha (e. g. Vism 217, cp. Nd2 under dukkha II. p. 168), or magga, phala, nibbāna (e. g. Tikp. 155 sq., 158; VbhA 43, 316, 488). -- magga as entrance to Arahantship is the final stage in the recognition (ñāṇa, pariññā, paññā) of the truth of the causal chain, which realises the origin of "ill," the possibility of its removal & the "way" to the removal. These stages are described as dukkhe ñāṇaŋ, samudaye ñāṇaŋ nirodhe ñāṇaŋ and magge ñāṇaŋ at D iii.227, Ps i.118. At the latter passage the foll. chapter (i.49) gives dukkha -- nirodha gāminī paṭipadā as identical with magga. -- Note. On the term see Cpd. 41 sq., 66 sq., 175, 186; Dhs trsl.2 58, 299 sq., 362 sq.; Expos. 216, 354n. On passages with aṭṭhangika magga & others where magga is used in similes see Mrs. Rh. D. in J.P.T.S. 1907, pp. 119, 120. -- 3. Stage of righteousness, with ref. to the var. conditions of Arahantship divided into 4 stages, viz. sotāpatti -- magga, sakadāgāmi˚, anāgāmi˚, arahatta˚, or the stage of entering the stream (of salvation), that of returning once, that of the never -- returner, that of Arahantship. -- At DhA i.110 magga -- phala "the fruit of the Path" (i. e. the attainment of the foundation or first step of Arahantship) is identical with sotāpattiphala on p. 113 (a) in general: arahatta˚ S i.78; A iii.391; DA i.224. -- (b) in particular as the 4 paths: Nd2 612 A; Vbh 322 sq., 328, 335; Vism 453, 672<-> 678; DhA iv.30; VbhA 301. -- 4. In the Tikapaṭṭhāna (under magga -- paccaya -- niddesa p. 52) 12 constituents of magga are enumd; viz. paññā, vitakka, sammāvācā, s -- kammanta, s -- ājīva, viriya, sati, samādhi, micchā -- diṭṭhi, micchā -- vācā, m -- kammanta, m -- ājīva.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :3729.pali" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
alan
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Re: The path is the goal, or is it?

Post by alan »

Painful.
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tiltbillings
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Re: The path is the goal, or is it?

Post by tiltbillings »

alan wrote:Painful.
Image
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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piotr
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Re: The path is the goal, or is it?

Post by piotr »

The path is the goal if you want to wander forever.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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