[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/includes/session.php on line 2208: Array to string conversion
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4688: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4690: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4691: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4692: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
Dhamma Wheel • View topic - Difference between craving and clinging?

Difference between craving and clinging?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby fijiNut » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:50 am

Here are the definitions according to the Pali text society.
Tanha http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.1:1:1936.pali
Upadana http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... :3973.pali

I have always had the preconception that clinging arises from repeated craving, and is like a 'thickening' of craving, but if somebody could clarify my understanding, that would be excellent!

metta,
fijiNut
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:11 am

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:02 am

As I see it, one craves something that one does not yet possess. On getting it, one becomes attached to it, regards it as one's own, and begins to fret and worry about losing it.

From Feeling, Craving Arises

From Craving, Attachment Arises
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
 
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby Stephen K » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:05 am

From http://www.answers.com/topic/upadana

To distinguish craving from clinging, Buddhaghosa uses the following metaphor:

"Craving is the aspiring to an object that one has not yet reached, like a thief's stretching out his hand in the dark; clinging is the grasping of an object that one has reached, like the thief's grasping his objective.... They are the roots of the suffering due to seeking and guarding."
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
User avatar
Stephen K
 
Posts: 815
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby meindzai » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:34 am

I also think craving tends to be more sensual, i.e.:

"And what is craving? What is the origination of craving? What is the cessation of craving? What is the way of practice leading to the cessation of craving?

"There are these six cravings: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for smells, craving for tastes, craving for tactile sensations, craving for ideas. This is called craving.

"From the origination of feeling comes the origination of craving. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving.


With clinging, though, you have a lot more having to do with ideas and views:

"There are these four clingings: sensuality clinging, view clinging, precept & practice clinging, and doctrine of self clinging. This is called clinging.


From the Sammaditthi Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

-M
meindzai
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:10 pm

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby dhammapal » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:45 am

Hi, in his book on Dependent Co-arising, Thanissaro Bhikkhu describes factors 8 & 9 thus:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:8) Craving for the objects of the six sense media. This craving can focus on any of the six sense media, and can take any of three forms:
a) sensuality-craving (craving for sensual plans and resolves),
b) becoming-craving (craving to assume an identity in a world of experience), and
c) non-becoming-craving (craving for the end of an identity in a world of experience).
9) Clinging—passion and delight—focused on the five aggregates of form, feeling, perception, fabrication, and consciousness. This clinging can take any of four forms:
a) sensuality-clinging,
b) view-clinging,
c) habit-and-practice-clinging, and
d) doctrine-of-self-clinging.
From: The Shape of Suffering: A Study of Dependent Co-arising by Thanissaro Bhikkhu (pdf file)

With metta / dhammapal.
dhammapal
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby Zen » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:44 pm

My understanding is that craving is just desire for something. Eg: There is hunger.

Clinging is an emotional investment in the fulfillment or outcome of that desire. Eg: I'm hungry and if my meal doesn't arrive soon I'm going to scream!
Zen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:18 pm

Re: Difference between craving and clinging?

Postby daverupa » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:13 pm

dhammapal wrote:Hi, in his book on Dependent Co-arising, Thanissaro Bhikkhu describes factors 8 & 9 thus:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:8) Craving for the objects of the six sense media. This craving can focus on any of the six sense media, and can take any of three forms:
a) sensuality-craving (craving for sensual plans and resolves),
b) becoming-craving (craving to assume an identity in a world of experience), and
c) non-becoming-craving (craving for the end of an identity in a world of experience).
9) Clinging—passion and delight—focused on the five aggregates of form, feeling, perception, fabrication, and consciousness. This clinging can take any of four forms:
a) sensuality-clinging,
b) view-clinging,
c) habit-and-practice-clinging, and
d) doctrine-of-self-clinging.
From: The Shape of Suffering: A Study of Dependent Co-arising by Thanissaro Bhikkhu (pdf file)

With metta / dhammapal.


This makes sense to me in the following way: when a sense input occurs, or when one wishes for a sense input or wishes to not have a sense input, it comes in one of six ways, as here. One craves because of seeing a self in one of the five aggregates that will "have" the sense input just as it wants, and this clinging to the sense input occurs through there being an idea "my perception is so-and-so, my body is so-and-so", and greedily or abhorrently becoming absorbed in the self-narrative (whereupon "Becoming"...).
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
daverupa
 
Posts: 4515
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm


Return to General Theravāda discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests