The Buddha's path to liberation

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starter
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The Buddha's path to liberation

Post by starter »

Hello teachers/friends,

After seeing some wrong view/speech/conduct/samadhi of some practitioners, I've realized that only doing meditation and contemplations of 5 aggregates / dependent origination (DO) / 3 characteristics is not enough to eliminate the unwholesome habits/underline tendencies and wrong understandings etc. The foundation of our practice should be built upon Noble 8-factored Path (N8P). Without a solid foundation of N8P, it's impossible to really reach nibbana. Therefore, I'd like to share with you my understanding of the Buddha's path and would appreciate your comments/advice, as always.

My understanding of the Buddha's path:

Learn the true dhamma/reflective acceptance of the Dhamma (the Buddha's teaching) while having admirable teachers/friends:
→ Right View of the law of karma to start the mundane 8-factored path that is aimed at the effacement of 10 unwholesome deeds, establishment of the 8 path factors and the understanding of 4 Noble Truths → Sense of fear and shame → Faith in the Buddha and HIS teaching, become faith followers and enter the path* to stream entry (*the gradual training as outline in MN 27)
→ Apply Right attention/reflection/consideration (striving for yoniso manasikara) to all the following:
→ Right Resolve/Thinking [1) striving for and culminating intention/thoughts of non-unrighteous greed/non-covetousness (not covet for material or immaterial gain that is other's or not entitled to oneself, practice dana and caga), non-ill will, non-wrong view (of the law of karma; 2) striving for intention/thoughts of non-bodily and then non-mental sensual desire*, non-hatred/non-malevonance, non-cruelty/non-harming; [*see "Right way to cultivate samma sankappa?" http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 23#p268923]
→ Right speech [striving for no deliberate false, malicious, harsh speech and no gossiping, and better also striving for no hurried and untimely speech, and no extolling or disparaging ... -- no unwholesome/unbeneficial speech] ]
→ Right conduct [striving for no killing /no stealing /no sexual (and other) misconduct]
→ Right livelihood [striving for a non-harming, wholesome livelihood]
→ Right effort [establishing four exertions/strivings and use it to establish the other seven path factors; strive for sense restraint, remain vigilant/wakeful (for obstructive mental states), and restrain the five hindrances]
→ Right mindfulness [establishing the 4 mindfulness (of body/feeling/mind/the Dhamma) by starting from mindfulness of breathing & mindfulness/full awareness and right/clear comprehension; practice Satipatthana MN 10]
→ Right Samādhi [establishing Samadhi; "Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors" MN 117]

→ Investigate/contemplate Dhammas:
→ True knowledge/ñāṇa: know/see things as they truly are -- the 5 aggregates/6 sense objects are all anicca/dukkha/anatta (gain the "the Dhamma eye", comprehend the 4NT), gain Noble Right View of the 4 Noble Truths (the first 4 of the 12 folds), break the three fetters (self identity view, doubt about the Buddha and the Dhamma, and grasping sila and observances/rituals as way to liberation), gain unshakable Faith, enter the Noble 8-factored path (the "stream") that is aimed at the perfection of the 8 factors and nibbana, and apply Right attention/reflection/consideration (culmination of yoniso manasikara) to all the following:
→ Noble Right Resolve/Thinking [culmination of the resolve and thoughts for non-sensuality, non-malevonance (hate, hostility, anger, ...), non-harming]
→ Noble Right Speech [culmination of no un-wholesome/un-beneficial speech]
→ Noble Right Conduct [culmination of no killing / stealing /sexual (and other) misconduct]
→ Noble Right Livelihood [culmination of wholesome, beneficial livelihood and contentment]
→ Noble Right Effort [culmination of four exertions/strivings, and use it to culminate the other 7 path factors; suppression of the five hindrances]
→ Noble Right Mindfulness [culmination of the 4 mindfulness]
→ Noble Right Samādhi [the 4 jhanas]

The links (7 enlightenment factors) between Right Mindfulness and Nibbana:
→ Right Mindfulness (of body/feeling/mind/the Dhamma) [satisambojjhaṅga]
→ Investigation of body, or feeling, or mind, or the dhamma as presented to the investigating mind by mindfulness [dhammavicayasambojjhaṅga]
→ Ardency/Energetic Effort to remove 5 hindrances (viriya) (to be ardent on keeping the mind on the meditation object) [viriyasambojjhaṅga]
→ Overcoming of the five hindrances → Joy(pāmojja)
→ Rapture [pītisambojjhaṅga]
→ Tranquility [passaddhisambojjhaṅga] → pleasure (sukha)
→ Right Samādhi (the 4 jhanas, equipped with the seven preceding right factors) [samādhisambojjhaṅga]
→ Upekkha (mental/psychological/emotional neutrality)
→ Investigation/contemplation of Dhammas, via direct experience (not by reasoning, imaging, ....
Right insight knowledge for liberation: (sammā-ñāṇa) true knowledge (comprehension of the four noble truths in three ways and twelve folds & cessation of ignorance)
-- Nibbana

Your input would be appreciated. My gratitude and metta to all,

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retrofuturist
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Starter,

I agree with the necessity of the Noble Eightfold Path - no meditation technique alone is a substitute for the Buddha's path, as detailed in the suttas.

The insight meditations and contemplations you detail are valuable, if they lead to right knowledge. It's getting to that Right Knowledge which is the challenge, because once you really know how all things are, the subsequent dispassion and release would be a natural consequence of this knowledge. Therefore, don't lose faith in them... just test them until you can see how they actually lead to knowledge of all formations.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
rowyourboat
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by rowyourboat »

In view of the below sutta, see if your structure is compatible:



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Tipitaka Anguttara Nikaya Tens
AN 10.7PTS: A v 8
Sariputta Sutta: With Sariputta
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004–2011
Then Ven. Ananda went to Ven. Sariputta and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Sariputta, "Friend Sariputta, could a monk have an attainment of concentration such that he would neither be percipient of earth with regard to earth, nor of water with regard to water, nor of fire... wind... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness... the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception... this world... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet he would still be percipient?"

"Yes, friend Ananda, he could..."

"But how, friend Sariputta, could a monk have an attainment of concentration such he would neither be percipient of earth with regard to earth... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet he would still be percipient?"

"Once, friend Ananda, when I was staying right here in Savatthi in the Blind Man's Grove, I reached concentration in such a way that I was neither percipient of earth with regard to earth... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet I was still percipient."

"But what, friend Sariputta, were you percipient of at that time?"

"'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding — the cessation of becoming — Unbinding': One perception arose in me, friend Ananda, as another perception ceased. Just as in a blazing woodchip fire, one flame arises as another flame ceases, even so, 'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding — the cessation of becoming — Unbinding': One perception arose in me as another one ceased. I was percipient at that time of 'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding.'"

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by starter »

rowyourboat wrote:In view of the below sutta, see if your structure is compatible:

"Once, friend Ananda, when I was staying right here in Savatthi in the Blind Man's Grove, I reached concentration in such a way that I was neither percipient of earth with regard to earth... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet I was still percipient."

"But what, friend Sariputta, were you percipient of at that time?"

"'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding — the cessation of becoming — Unbinding': One perception arose in me, friend Ananda, as another perception ceased. Just as in a blazing woodchip fire, one flame arises as another flame ceases, even so, 'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding — the cessation of becoming — Unbinding': One perception arose in me as another one ceased. I was percipient at that time of 'The cessation of becoming — Unbinding.'"
Hello Matheesha,

Many thanks for the sutta. Interesting to note that Ven. Sariputta was still percipient of the cessation of becoming in the sphere of cessation of perception and feeling, not being unconscious. To my understanding of DO, the cessation of becoming is the result of the cessation of craving/clinging -- the cessation of assavas (greed/hatred/delusion), not the cessation of awareness, and nibbana is the result of the cessation of becoming -- "the stilling of all formations", sabba-saṅkhāra-samatha, first refers to the stilling of the kamma producing volitional formations (desires/cravings) during this very life, which will end the future rebirth, and consequently, the complete stilling/cessation of all conditioned phenomena (sankhara) at the death of the arahant. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks to Retro for the helpful comment as well. Indeed meditation alone is not sufficient for nibbana.

Metta to all,

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rowyourboat
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by rowyourboat »

No I would retreact my earlier position that lack of consciousness was a requirement for nibbana, but still maintain that there cannot be arising and passing away in nibbana- that there is a nibbana 'dhathu' which can be perceived as blackness or an emptiness, especially in the phala states, which seems to be a mix of samatha and vipassana, as Ven Nananda claims. Controlled removal of the consciousness that perceived nibbana is not impossible either, as those few verses that describe anidassana vinnana suggests. All degrees on 'extinguishment' can be called nibbana (which is one meaning of it) including further ceasing refinements in jhana.

So whereabouts in your practice are you? Morality, honesty, generosity, kindness, metta, renunciation, kind speech, reducing ones defilements are all part of the practice.

With metta

Matheesha
With Metta

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LastLegend
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by LastLegend »

The point of right view is to keep one's mind pure (the mind is not pure when it's attached to for examples pleasure, self-indulgence, fame, knowledge and from these attachments one cannot have the right view) . And this is what conduct (such as keeping precepts,vows, not breaking laws) is for. And after one has taken refuge in Buddha (Awakened), one should now alway remember to have the right view because Buddha always has right view. Also rely on Buddha's teachings for right view.
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by rowyourboat »

LastLegend wrote:The point of right view is to keep one's mind pure (the mind is not pure when it's attached to for examples pleasure, self-indulgence, fame, knowledge and from these attachments one cannot have the right view) . And this is what conduct (such as keeping precepts,vows, not breaking laws) is for. And after one has taken refuge in Buddha (Awakened), one should now alway remember to have the right view because Buddha always has right view. Also rely on Buddha's teachings for right view.
Hi Lastlegend,

I believe you are right. For a fuller description of (supramundane) right view:

"Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view.

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
starter
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by starter »

LastLegend wrote:The point of right view is to keep one's mind pure (the mind is not pure when it's attached to for examples pleasure, self-indulgence, fame, knowledge and from these attachments one cannot have the right view) . And this is what conduct (such as keeping precepts,vows, not breaking laws) is for. And after one has taken refuge in Buddha (Awakened), one should now alway remember to have the right view because Buddha always has right view. Also rely on Buddha's teachings for right view.
-- Only a hindrance-free mind can recognize the truth and hence obtain the right view. Please see the discussions on this thread if interested:
The first noble knowledge – how to realize the truth [http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6025]

Metta to all,

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LastLegend
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by LastLegend »

Thank you starter.

I believe practice is wholesome in that we try our best to chop off attachments (such as lust, wealth, fame, eating, sleeping for examples) so that the mind has less hindrance in order to achieve concentration through meditation. By following Dhamma (true teachings of Buddha), will have true or right view because Buddha's teachings are Truth. But to have right views on our own, we have to reach Arahant until then we have to rely on Buddha's teachings.
starter
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by starter »

LastLegend wrote:Thank you starter.

I believe practice is wholesome in that we try our best to chop off attachments (such as lust, wealth, fame, eating, sleeping for examples) so that the mind has less hindrance in order to achieve concentration through meditation. By following Dhamma (true teachings of Buddha), will have true or right view because Buddha's teachings are Truth. But to have right views on our own, we have to reach Arahant until then we have to rely on Buddha's teachings.
Hm ... I tend to think that the Buddha's teachings are the pointers to the truth. We've to figure out "the pointed (the "moon") by ourselves. The Buddha taught us to examine even his teachings before accepting them (MN 95). This is especially necessary now considering how the teachings have been transmitted and translated over so many years ...

By the way, since MN 95 is mentioned, I'd like to review the following teachings together with our friends:

"... There are five things that can turn out in two ways in the here-&-now. Which five? Conviction, liking, unbroken tradition, reasoning by analogy, & an agreement through pondering views. These are the five things that can turn out in two ways in the here-&-now. Now some things are firmly held in conviction and yet vain, empty, & false. Some things are not firmly held in conviction, and yet they are genuine, factual, & unmistaken. Some things are well-liked... truly an unbroken tradition... well-reasoned... Some things are well-pondered and yet vain, empty, & false. Some things are not well-pondered, and yet they are genuine, factual, & unmistaken. In these cases it isn't proper for a knowledgeable person who safeguards the truth to come to a definite conclusion, 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless."

"But to what extent, Master Gotama, is there the safeguarding of the truth? To what extent does one safeguard the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the safeguarding of the truth."

"If a person has conviction, his statement, 'This is my conviction,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth. I describe this as the safeguarding of the truth. But it is not yet an awakening to the truth."

Metta to all,

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starter
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by starter »

Hm... interesting to note that the Buddha's path consists of the following numbers:

37 -- Aids to enlightenment
12 -- DO
10 -- 10 courses of skillful action
8 -- N8P
7 -- 7 enlightenment factors
6 -- 6 sense sets (the All); restrain 6 senses
5 -- 5 precepts; 5 aggregates; overcoming 5 hindrances; 5 faculties
4 -- 4NT; 4 exertions; 4 mindfulness;
3 -- 3 resolves (non-greed / non-aversion / non-delusion]; 3 characteristics (anicca/dukkha/anatta]; triangle [plus -- gratification / minus -- danger / escape -- release];
2 -- tranquility and insight
1 -- the unconditioned, nibbana, with residue
0 -- 0 residue; nibbana

Welcome to add more. Thanks and metta to all,

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Last edited by starter on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by starter »

Interesting to learn from Ven. Bodhi's lecture based on his book "In the Buddha's Words" (http://www.noblepath.org/audio.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, 10c) that "unshakable faith" is actually a commentary translation. The real meaning of the pali terms (?) is "confirmed confidence", the reflective acceptance of and trust in the Buddha's teachings, one of the four factors of the stream entry. How come that the commentary interpreted the terms into "unshakable faith"? I suppose "confirmed confidence" is not really 100% unshakable.

Metta to all,

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daverupa
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Re: The Buddha's path: from right view to nibbana

Post by daverupa »

starter wrote: I suppose "confirmed confidence" is not really 100% unshakable.
Confidence, then confirmed in one's practice. That's unshakeable.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: The Buddha's path to liberation

Post by starter »

A related topic: The place of dana and caga in the path & its development (http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
The Buddha’s path comprises a gradual process of emptying “self”. It starts with giving away one's external possessions (dana). Only when the generous dispositional trait sets in and the close-fitted selfish grip one has on one's external possessions is loosened by generosity (caga, literally means letting go?), one can truly achieve the observance of the Five Precepts, empty the Ten Unwholesome Deeds (the coarse internal defilements/“possessions"), and fill oneself with positive noble qualities (sila). Next comes the emptying of attractive/repulsive sensory inputs by guarding the sense doors, and the suppression/emptying of the Five Hindrances (deep-seated defilements/"possessions") to develop Samadhi (bhavana), which will lead to the deepening insight into the real nature of things and finally the empty of “self” (panna). But the path of dana - sila - bhavana - panna (which is another manifestation of the 8-factored path) starts with dana, the practice of giving. The path for those truly gone forth starts from sila instead of dana, because they have already given away all their external possessions to start the holy life. We as lay disciples can develop and use dana as our first "weapon" for greed/ill will/cruelty.

In order to practice dana and caga, one should first establish Right View of the Buddha's teaching on the law of Karma and dana/caga as one's guide. One should also establish Right Intention/Thought (non-greed, non-ill will, non-harming), practicing dana/caga as the first antidote for greed (linked to stinginess), ill will and cruelty.

dana and caga are the first antidotes for unrighteous greed/stinginess/selfishness, hatred/ill will, and cruelty that a lay practitioner can develop and use; metta/karuna/mudita/upekkha are the second antidotes that can be developed with the quality of caga as the foundatio; the bhavanamaya panna (not just theoretical understanding) of anicca/dukkha/anatta is the third antidote that will finally uproot greed/aversion/delusion but can only be obtained after the successful suppression of greed/aversion/delusion, with dana/caga, metta/karuna/mudita/upekkha, sila and bhavana as the foundation.
Last edited by starter on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:14 am, edited 6 times in total.
daverupa
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Re: The Buddha's path to liberation

Post by daverupa »

For your consideration with respect to thinking of the path in these terms: an article by Anālayo.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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