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Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:53 am
by phil
Hi all

Retro posted a link to a sutta from Sutta Nipata in another thread, and it reminded me how many wonderful suttas there are in there. It seems a corner of the Canon that I am really unfamiliar with, so I would appreciate hearing some of your favourites so I could look them up.

My personal favourite is the Mangala Sutta, which is available in several translation at ATI. Here's one.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it really provides a complete plan for approach Dhamma, a great framework of reference for lay followers. There is a very good series of talks on it by Bhikkhu Bodhi here:

http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/about- ... ipata.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, there is a wonderful recitation of it by Sayadaw U Silananda in Pali and English here:

http://www.buddhanet.net/audio-chant.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please scroll down to "Paritta Chanting, Burmese style" and click track 2.

The "mangalas" are translated as blessings, 38 of them, but the wonderful thing is that they are blessing that we earn or fail to earn through our own actions. Towards the end of the sutta there are very refined attainments, I usually don't get that far in my reflections on it - but early on there are many wonderful sources of reflection for lay followers working with undeveloped minds. A very helpful sutta for moral guidance, the most helpful I've found, personally.

Metta,

Phil

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:24 am
by Bhikkhu Pesala

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:07 pm
by DNS
Definitely the Metta Sutta.

The Dhammika Sutta is pretty good too:

"He should not kill a living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should he incite another to kill. Do not injure any being, either strong or weak, in the world.”

Dhammika Sutta, Sutta Nipata, Khuddaka Nikaya

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:16 am
by phil
phil wrote:Hi all

Retro posted a link to a sutta from Sutta Nipata in another thread, and it reminded me how many wonderful suttas there are in there. It seems a corner of the Canon that I am really unfamiliar with, so I would appreciate hearing some of your favourites so I could look them up.

My personal favourite is the Mangala Sutta, which is available in several translation at ATI. Here's one.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it really provides a complete plan for approach Dhamma, a great framework of reference for lay followers. There is a very good series of talks on it by Bhikkhu Bodhi here:

http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/about- ... ipata.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, there is a wonderful recitation of it by Sayadaw U Silananda in Pali and English here:

http://www.buddhanet.net/audio-chant.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please scroll down to "Paritta Chanting, Burmese style" and click track 2.

The "mangalas" are translated as blessings, 38 of them, but the wonderful thing is that they are blessing that we earn or fail to earn through our own actions. Towards the end of the sutta there are very refined attainments, I usually don't get that far in my reflections on it - but early on there are many wonderful sources of reflection for lay followers working with undeveloped minds. A very helpful sutta for moral guidance, the most helpful I've found, personally.

Metta,

Phil
Hi all

Looking through the Sutta Nipata at ATI, found this sutta that is described as a companion to the Mangala in that it lays out the ways one falls away from the path while the former lays out ways that lead to happiness and progress.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Phil

p.s thank you Bhikkhu and David (?) for your recommendations.

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:39 am
by phil
Hi all

.

Here is a good sutta for reflection on unattractiveness of the body for those of us who need constant help in that area.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It ends with this succinct reminder:


"This two-footed, filthy, evil-smelling,
filled-with-various-carcasses,
oozing-out-here-&-there body:
Whoever would think,
on the basis of a body like this,
to exalt himself or disparage another:
What is that
if not blindness?"

Metta,

Phil

p.s In my first reaction on reading this there was a hint of resentment. "Hey! my body's not filthy! speak for yourself" We have very thick layers of delusion about the body to cut through!

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:21 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

Does anyone have any recommendations on particular translations of the Sutta Nipata?

Venerable Dhammanando has once said...
Woven Cadences is a very old translation by E.M. Hare and quite outstanding from a literary point of view (possibly the most beautiful translation ever of a Buddhist text), but unfortunately it's too free a rendering to be relied on for learning Dhamma.

The only accurate translation is Group of Discourses by K.R. Norman.
What about H. Saddhatissa's translation ( http://www.amazon.com/Sutta-Nipata-New- ... 0700701818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )?

Image

I've seen a Youtube video of Bhikkhu Bodhi reading from it, so I assume he considers it to be a reasonable version. Has anyone seen this one, or any other works from this translator?

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:42 pm
by DNS
retrofuturist wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations on particular translations of the Sutta Nipata?
I have the http://www.palitext.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; PTS translations of the Sutta Nipata and the other texts of the Canon (and what Wisdom pubs. has done so far).

The translation I have is from K. R. Norman, which seems to be good, but you're right, I've seen Bhikkhu Bodhi reading and studying from the other translation, so I would guess that one is better.

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:10 pm
by Dhammanando
Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:What about H. Saddhatissa's translation ( http://www.amazon.com/Sutta-Nipata-New- ... 0700701818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )?

Image

I've seen a Youtube video of Bhikkhu Bodhi reading from it, so I assume he considers it to be a reasonable version. Has anyone seen this one, or any other works from this translator?
It's a fairly free rendering, and not a very good one, imo. I remember at E-sangha expressing surprise upon hearing that Bhikkhu Bodhi had chosen to use this translation rather than Norman's. But it turned out that the focus of his talks was chiefly suttas of a moralistic or devotional sort, whose contents can survive even in a poorish translation. Also, I was told by one of the posters that Bodhi often gives up on Saddhatissa's translation and supplies his own during the talks.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:45 am
by mikenz66
Dhammanando wrote: It's a fairly free rendering, and not a very good one, imo. I remember at E-sangha expressing surprise upon hearing that Bhikkhu Bodhi had chosen to use this translation rather than Norman's. But it turned out that the focus of his talks was chiefly suttas of a moralistic or devotional sort, whose contents can survive even in a poorish translation. Also, I was told by one of the posters that Bodhi often gives up on Saddhatissa's translation and supplies his own during the talks.
I think I said that... Certainly in the lectures here http://www.bodhimonastery.net/courses/Sn/Sn_course.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Bhikkhu Bodhi often provides his own rendering of the Suttas.

Those lectures are well worth listening to, in my opinion, especially the first 12:
The Paritta (Protective) Suttas (Ratana, Mahāmaṅgala, Mettā).
They make a nice contrast to his talks on the Majjhima Nikaya, which has a more "analytical" focus, precisely because they are more "devotional".

Metta
Mike

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:53 am
by sherubtse
mikenz66 wrote:
I think I said that... Certainly in the lectures here http://www.bodhimonastery.net/courses/Sn/Sn_course.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Bhikkhu Bodhi often provides his own rendering of the Suttas.

Those lectures are well worth listening to, in my opinion, especially the first 12:
The Paritta (Protective) Suttas (Ratana, Mahāmaṅgala, Mettā).
They make a nice contrast to his talks on the Majjhima Nikaya, which has a more "analytical" focus, precisely because they are more "devotional".

Metta
Mike
Yes he does provide his own rendering, and not infrequently takes the Ven Saddhatissa to task for his less than faithful rendering of the text.

I agree that they are more devotional than his talks from the MN. They are also more concerned with practical matters of ethics and conduct. IMO, they are wonderful talks!

Best wishes,
Sherubtse

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:00 am
by mikenz66
sherubtse wrote: I agree that they are more devotional than his talks from the MN. They are also more concerned with practical matters of ethics and conduct. IMO, they are wonderful talks!
I agree. Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I had spent a lot of time reading "In the Buddh'a words" and the MN and listening to Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks before I listened to the Sn talks. Those first few Sn talks give a wonderful insight into what lay Buddhists in Asia are exposed to and therefore what might be particularly important (though often overlooked) for Western beginners...

Metta
Mike

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:29 am
by phil
mikenz66 wrote:
sherubtse wrote: I agree that they are more devotional than his talks from the MN. They are also more concerned with practical matters of ethics and conduct. IMO, they are wonderful talks!
I agree. Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I had spent a lot of time reading "In the Buddh'a words" and the MN and listening to Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks before I listened to the Sn talks. Those first few Sn talks give a wonderful insight into what lay Buddhists in Asia are exposed to and therefore what might be particularly important (though often overlooked) for Western beginners...

Metta
Mike
This is really important. I have some good Dhamma friends who insist that every sutta should be seen in terms of the deeper implications, in Abhidhamma terms. For example, the Mangala sutta. I think they fail to appreciate the way suttas can motivate wholesome behaviour in very conventional ways that are not unique to Buddhism but still essential in setting up conditions for the deeper understanding. I think some of us in the West get very attracted to the deep teachings because a) we are impatient and b) there is a reluctance to be satisfied with conventional morality because of dissatisfactory connotations from other religions. The devotional aspect of Buddhism is underappreciated, I feel.

Metta,

Phil

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:00 pm
by Nicholas Weeks
Bumping up this old thread on the wonderful Sutta Nipata. The poetic version by the late Kantipalo is a favorite. The suttas 1.6 & 7 on Disasters & Outcastes (among others) are much needed in this era of lovely, comforting spiritual pablum.

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:34 am
by Bhikkhu Pesala
Since this topic was started, I have published my translation of Selected Discourses from the Suttanipāta.

Re: Favourites from Sutta Nipata

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:48 pm
by Nicholas Weeks
Powerful truths from Buddha:
2 The Octad on the Cave (Guhaṭṭhaka Sutta)

772. Stuck in the cave, densely covered over,
dwelling immersed in bewilderment, [152]
a person such as this is far from seclusion,
for in the world sensual pleasures
are not easily abandoned.

773. Based upon desire, bound to enjoyment of existence,
they let go with difficulty, for there is no release through others.
Concerned, too, with the future or the past,
they hanker for these sensual pleasures or earlier ones.

774. Those greedy for sensual pleasures, intent on them,
are confused, stingy, settled in the unrighteous.
When they come upon suffering they lament:
“What will we be after we pass away here?”

775. Therefore a person should train right here:
whatever in the world one might know as unrighteous,
one should not on its account act unrighteously,
for the wise say this life is short.

776. I see in the world this population trembling all over,
addicted to craving for states of existence;
inferior people prattle in the mouth of death,
not devoid of craving for various states of existence.

777. See them trembling over things taken as “mine”
like fish in a depleted stream with little water.
Having seen this too, one should take nothing as “mine,”
not forming attachment to states of existence.

778. Having removed desire for both ends,
having fully understood contact, without greed,
not doing anything for which one might blame oneself,
the wise person is not tainted by things seen or heard.[153]

779. Having fully understood perception,
one can cross the flood.
The muni, untainted by possessions,
with the dart extracted, living heedfully,
does not desire this world or another