Do arahants have emotions?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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fig tree
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by fig tree »

Certain suttas describe the Buddha as smiling in response to something good.

Ven. Nanamoli's translation in The Life of Buddha of the Acchariya-Abbhuta sutta (MN 123) refers to the "Tathagatha's feelings of pleasure, pain, and equanimity" being known to him.

It's not clear to me what Pali terms should be taken as equivalent to the English word "emotion". A complete absence of greed and aversion is quite unlike what people usually have in mind when they are thinking of emotions.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by acinteyyo »

Could someone please come up with a suitable definition of "emotions" which all contributors may agree on in order to have a common base?
Otherwise this topic will not be quite useful imo...

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Epistemes
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by Epistemes »

acinteyyo wrote:Could someone please come up with a suitable definition of "emotions" which all contributors may agree on in order to have a common base?
Otherwise this topic will not be quite useful imo...

best wishes, acinteyyo
How about this definition from the Standord Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
emotions are specifically feelings caused by changes in physiological conditions relating to the autonomic and motor functions
with the exception that
To account for the differences between guilt, embarrassment, and shame, for example, a plausible theory will have to look beyond physiology and common-sense phenomenology
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emotion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Sacha G
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by Sacha G »

Hi everybody
Thanks for your replies so far!
In fact, I meant do arahants have negative emotions such as anger, sadness, fear. Some say they do but are detached from them, so remain unaffected. To me it seems weird that you can both be sad and unaffected, sounds like a contradiction in terms.
:coffee:
Pali and Theravada texts:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Sacha G wrote:To me it seems weird that you can both be sad and unaffected, sounds like a contradiction in terms.
It sounds to me like people dragging Arahantship down to their own level, rather than striving upward to attain it (ala Daniel Ingram).

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by DNS »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Sacha G wrote:To me it seems weird that you can both be sad and unaffected, sounds like a contradiction in terms.
It sounds to me like people dragging Arahantship down to their own level, rather than striving upward to attain it (ala Daniel Ingram).
Exactly. :thumbsup:

As I mentioned earlier an Arahant has metta, karuna, mudita, uppekha. What more does she need? If it sounds difficult to only have metta, karuna, mudita, uppekha and not need anything else, it is because it is. Otherwise we would see lots of Arahants going around.

Regular worldlings and even sotapannas still have other emotions, can cheer for their club/team, get upset, have exuberance, etc.
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Epistemes
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by Epistemes »

I've been considering this question too, but from a slightly different angle:

Do arahants see the world like in The Matrix where the awakened find the sensuous and sensational world to be a simulated reality developed by the machinations of the mind and nothing more? Does enlightenment reduce everything down to gray? If so, why would you ever desire to experience such blandness?

Why wouldn't you ever want to experience the joy of cheering the club/home team?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Epistemes,

I've never seen the Matrix, nor have I become and arahant, so I don't really consider myself qualified to respond adequately to your question, but the best thing I have ever read in relation to the 'nibbanized' experience of the arahant is transcribed in Bhikkhu Nanananda's "Nibbana Sermons". They're quite heavy going, but are very insightful. Most of them are available free online.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by DNS »

Epistemes wrote: Why wouldn't you ever want to experience the joy of cheering the club/home team?
What happens when the home team isn't winning? :tongue:

I'm not suggesting, nor is anyone else here (from what I have seen) that you need to give up any lay person worldly pleasures or pursuits. Full enlightenment as an Arahant is far off for most (perhaps all) of us. There may be a time when those pursuits are not needed, not by suppression, but because a greater joy and happiness is attained with jhana, meditation, and the brahma viharas. In the meantime, there is nothing wrong with the lay person pursuits and worldly life, with as much meditation and study that time allows mixed with that.
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by acinteyyo »

This may or may not be very helpful but I like it.
From "Gifts He Left Behind - The Dhamma Legacy of Ajaan Dune Atulo":
94. Answering questions with questions

Because I had been on familiar terms with Luang Pu for a long time, when I would ask him a question he would tend to answer by asking a question in return — his way of getting me to think out the answer on my own.
For example, when I asked, "The minds of arahants are clean and bright. Can they predict the next lottery number accurately?" he answered, "Would arahants be interested in knowing stuff like that?"
When I asked, "Do arahants dream in their sleep like ordinary people?" he answered, "Aren't dreams an affair of the aggregate of fabrication?"
When I asked, "Have there ever been any run-of-the-mill people still thick with defilements who have nevertheless been able to teach other people to become arahants?" he answered,
"Haven't there been a lot of doctors who, even though they themselves are ill, have been able to cure other people of their illnesses?"
(emphasize added)
So I tend to ask, aren't emotions an affair of the aggregate of fabrication?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by kirk5a »

acinteyyo wrote: So I tend to ask, aren't emotions an affair of the aggregate of fabrication?
That sounds right to me. But what would be an example of how this works? In relation to anger, for example. What is the "fabrication" there? And then, does everything for which we have the term "emotion" involve this fabrication?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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acinteyyo
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by acinteyyo »

kirk5a wrote:
acinteyyo wrote: So I tend to ask, aren't emotions an affair of the aggregate of fabrication?
That sounds right to me. But what would be an example of how this works? In relation to anger, for example. What is the "fabrication" there? And then, does everything for which we have the term "emotion" involve this fabrication?
The question is whether or not an arahant can be brought in connection with fabrications at all...
I mean anger, to pick up the example you mentioned, is a fabrication fabricated by fabrications and in the end this applies to all fabrications generally, but arahants are gone beyond fabrications.
So how can we describe any state of an arahant accurately when we try to do so within inappropriate terms?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by kirk5a »

acinteyyo wrote: The question is whether or not an arahant can be brought in connection with fabrications at all...
I mean anger, to pick up the example you mentioned, is a fabrication fabricated by fabrications and in the end this applies to all fabrications generally, but arahants are gone beyond fabrications.
So how can we describe any state of an arahant accurately when we try to do so within inappropriate terms?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Ok I can see the point you are making with regard to arahants, but for the rest of us, I was wondering what is this "fabrications" or "fabricating" as it applies to emotions? I thought illustrating with a specific example would help bring that out. Otherwise we just have this word "fabrications" and I'm not clear on what that is referring to.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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acinteyyo
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by acinteyyo »

kirk5a wrote:
acinteyyo wrote: The question is whether or not an arahant can be brought in connection with fabrications at all...
I mean anger, to pick up the example you mentioned, is a fabrication fabricated by fabrications and in the end this applies to all fabrications generally, but arahants are gone beyond fabrications.
So how can we describe any state of an arahant accurately when we try to do so within inappropriate terms?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Ok I can see the point you are making with regard to arahants, but for the rest of us, I was wondering what is this "fabrications" or "fabricating" as it applies to emotions? I thought illustrating with a specific example would help bring that out. Otherwise we just have this word "fabrications" and I'm not clear on what that is referring to.
yep therefore I asked here for a suitable definition of "emotions" to be clear about what that is referring to. "Emotions" is even less clear to me as "fabrications".
best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Re: Do arahants have emotions?

Post by daverupa »

"The means by which we distinguish one emotion from another is a hotly contested issue in emotion research and affective science. This page summarises some of the major theories."
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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