Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
DarkDream
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by DarkDream »

I haven't looked at the web site in deapth but it appear fine to me. I guess that may surprise some of you who know how I am not really convinced at all in rebirth and obviously different realms.

But I did notice that it is does mention the other metaphorical aspect of it. For example, here it says:
What do we mean by HEAVEN?

Heaven can be said to be a place where we can reborn in after we die. It can also be a state of mind.
Even when it talks about the realms of existence the website says:
Whether these six realms of existence are actual or figurative doesn't really matter. What really matters is to maintain the practice so as to ensure a good rebirth. This is very important as it is only in either a Human realm or a Heavenly realm that we are able to learn and practice the Buddha's Teachings, and thus attain Nibbana.
It sort of contradicts itself a bit (if the six realms are figurative then it doesn't really make sense to practive ensure a good rebirth -- which obviously is in the realms), but at least the website seems fairly accomodating. I don't get the impression that it has a fundamentalist tinge to it where it says you must believe "A" "B" and "C" and this is the only way to interpret it.

As for "Anyone can go to heaven" slogan, I don't see it really that bad. It is just a grabber (convienent way to get people's intention) and I think the point is that it is what actions we do that "leads us to heaven" and not saying you are a member of a religion.

I agree with Venerable Appicchato, I do think they have their heart in the right place.

--DarkDream
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christopher:::
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by christopher::: »

DarkDream wrote:
As for "Anyone can go to heaven" slogan, I don't see it really that bad. It is just a grabber (convienent way to get people's intention) and I think the point is that it is what actions we do that "leads us to heaven" and not saying you are a member of a religion.

I agree with Venerable Appicchato, I do think they have their heart in the right place.

--DarkDream
I think so also. Looking at this page, they go into much deeper detail about the path of dharma. The slogan and idea "just be good" is the gateway.

To be honest, while not for everyone, I find this approach refreshing.

:heart:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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kc2dpt
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by kc2dpt »

There are some people this would be the best way to catch their attention and there are some people it would not be the best way. I am reminded of the Buddha teaching a householder the right way to worship the six directions (DN 31). I imagine if we saw an article titled "How to worship the six directions" many of us would assume this could have nothing to do with Buddhadhamma. :spy:
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

christopher::: wrote:
DarkDream wrote:
As for "Anyone can go to heaven" slogan, I don't see it really that bad. It is just a grabber (convienent way to get people's intention) and I think the point is that it is what actions we do that "leads us to heaven" and not saying you are a member of a religion.

I agree with Venerable Appicchato, I do think they have their heart in the right place.

--DarkDream
I think so also. Looking at this page, they go into much deeper detail about the path of dharma. The slogan and idea "just be good" is the gateway.

To be honest, while not for everyone, I find this approach refreshing.

:heart:

That page still focuses on mundane teachings such as good kamma, bad kamma, good birth, bad birth

Doesnt really go into the core teachings of D.O., Voidness, three marks etc

Still its a good introduction to Buddhism with basic beginer points all covered quite well

Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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appicchato
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by appicchato »

clw_uk wrote:That page still focuses on mundane teachings such as good kamma, bad kamma, good birth, bad birth

Doesnt really go into the core teachings of D.O., Voidness, three marks etc
Last night I sent a link to this thread to TY Lee (the website's author) and he responded that he thought, possibly, that people making comments such as this hadn't really taken the time to look at the website in it's entirety...I would agree...

For those interested check out these links...

http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings01Introduction.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings16Conclusion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This man is a real gentleman and deserves praise more than criticism...if I were asked...

Be well folks...and Just Be Good too... :smile:
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Ben
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ben »

appicchato wrote:
clw_uk wrote:That page still focuses on mundane teachings such as good kamma, bad kamma, good birth, bad birth

Doesnt really go into the core teachings of D.O., Voidness, three marks etc
Last night I sent a link to this thread to TY Lee (the website's author) and he responded that he thought, possibly, that people making comments such as this hadn't really taken the time to look at the website in it's entirety...I would agree...

For those interested check out these links...

http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings01Introduction.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings16Conclusion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This man is a real gentleman and deserves praise more than criticism...if I were asked...

Be well folks...and Just Be Good too... :smile:

Perhaps you are right, Venerable and i for one have been too quick to judge TY Lee's efforts.
Indeed, not everyone is ready for a spiritual life or to seek liberation as their aspiration.
Perhaps for such people, TY Lee's message hits the mark.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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appicchato
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by appicchato »

Ben wrote:Indeed, not everyone is ready for a spiritual life or to seek liberation as their aspiration.
Perhaps for such people, TY Lee's message hits the mark.
Hi Ben,

Check out, if you're interested, the link on what some folks think...http://www.justbegood.net/Comments.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This website (and Mr. Lee's other work) is one of the brighter spots in a world rapidly going mad...

Be well... :smile:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings bhante,

I'd be interested to hear more about Mr. Lee's other works...

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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salmon
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by salmon »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings bhante,

I'd be interested to hear more about Mr. Lee's other works...

Metta,
Retro. :)
Hello Retro,

TY Lee's other book is here (as posted by Bhante Appichato):
For those interested check out these links...

http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings01Introduction.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
http://www.justbegood.net/Blessings16Conclusion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
As for "non-academic" work, he also does alot of humanitarian work in Burma, prints and distributes free Dhamma materials and assists Buddhist communities in the propogation of the Dhamma.


metta. :anjali:
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~
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kc2dpt
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by kc2dpt »

FWIW, I briefly scanned some of the website and it looks very orthodox and complete to me. The title definitely seems to just be a hook rather than representative of the website as a whole.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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christopher:::
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by christopher::: »

clw_uk wrote:
christopher::: wrote:
DarkDream wrote:
As for "Anyone can go to heaven" slogan, I don't see it really that bad. It is just a grabber (convienent way to get people's intention) and I think the point is that it is what actions we do that "leads us to heaven" and not saying you are a member of a religion.

I agree with Venerable Appicchato, I do think they have their heart in the right place.

--DarkDream
I think so also. Looking at this page, they go into much deeper detail about the path of dharma. The slogan and idea "just be good" is the gateway.

To be honest, while not for everyone, I find this approach refreshing.

:heart:

That page still focuses on mundane teachings such as good kamma, bad kamma, good birth, bad birth

Doesnt really go into the core teachings of D.O., Voidness, three marks etc

Still its a good introduction to Buddhism with basic beginer points all covered quite well

Metta
Hi clw. Could you or someone else please explain to me how practicing mindfulness, learning meditation and "doing good things" for other people is somehow mundane or "just for beginners" and of lesser importance than contemplating D.O., voidness, etc? I guess I'm a mundane and beginner Buddhist, still, cause it just seems to me like caring for others, being compassionate and kind, having an open heart, behaving unselfishly are at the core of Buddhist practice..

At least, these are what are core in my practice, and i'm less interested in why people behave kindly and help others as i am in appreciating people who encourage others to behave in ways that are in sync with the dharma and will reduce suffering on our planet...

I'm sorry if i sound confrontational, i don't mean to be.

The dharma is like a wheel, is it not? Many paths of practice leading to the center, all of them interconnected....

the Metta Sutra, as linked from the website...
The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who seeks1 the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech.
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied.
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living beings there may be;
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be-born,
May all beings be at ease!

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings:
Radiating kindness over the entire world
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

Metta Sutta
Sutta Nipata I.8
:buddha1:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by Ceisiwr »

Hi Christopher

Hi clw. Could you or someone else please explain to me how practicing mindfulness, learning meditation and "doing good things" for other people is somehow mundane or "just for beginners" and of lesser importance than contemplating D.O., voidness, etc? I guess I'm a mundane and beginner Buddhist, still, cause it just seems to me like caring for others, being compassionate and kind, having an open heart, behaving unselfishly are at the core of Buddhist practice..

At least, these are what are core in my practice, and i'm less interested in why people behave kindly and help others as i am in appreciating people who encourage others to behave in ways that are in sync with the dharma and will reduce suffering on our planet...

I'm sorry if i sound confrontational, i don't mean to be.

The dharma is like a wheel, is it not? Many paths of practice leading to the center, all of them interconnected....

the Metta Sutra, as linked from the website...
Sorry i think what i said came across wrongly, all i meant was is that it covers the foundational practice (which is still a very important part throughout), as in the practice that people start with at begining (and carry on throughout) and doesnt go into detail about the other teachings. I didnt mean they were of lesser importance, sorry if it sounded that way

but as i said its an introduction for new people to Buddhism, its a very good introduction, there isnt anything wrong with it the person who made the site has done a very good job in my view :)


Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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DNS
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by DNS »

retrofuturist wrote: I'd be interested to hear more about Mr. Lee's other works...
His other website is pretty cool too:

http://www.loveusnoteatus.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He sounds very well-rounded, highly knowledgeable, and he must be a vegetarian too. :popcorn:
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cooran
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

An interesting coincidence ....

Not having read this thread, I was cleaning up my stock of unread books - I often get Dhamma books 'to read on a rainy day' - and I found a copy of this small booklet. I notice the reviews on the back cover include one from Ajahn Brahmavamso (who wrote the Foreward).

"Herein you will find the timeless wisdom of the Buddha presented with clarity, brevity and accuracy. Many often asked questions are directly and correctly answered. In all, this is a priceless little booklet to carry around or share with your friends." - Ajahn Brahm


metta
Chris
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sukhamanveti
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Re: Anyone can go to heaven, just be good

Post by sukhamanveti »

salmon wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Salmon,
salmon wrote:I do not understand why people feel that this website (justbegood) is bad for Buddhism?
I do not think anyone has said it is.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Dear Retro,

Perhaps it is just my ignorant understanding of language, but when I read the following posts (quoted), it does ring out to me that some feel that the website will turn people away from the religion.
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Ed,
sukhamanveti wrote:For me it would have had the opposite effect (repulsion), if this had been my first exposure to Buddhism.
Mine too, on account of the reliance on sheer faith.
metta.
Hi salmon,

I think that there are people out there who will be drawn to Buddhism by this website. It won't appeal to skeptical, secular nonBuddhists, but there are books and speakers reaching out to that group already. I think that it will be a net gain, a good thing, and I agree with your posts. In the future I just hope that they add some of the empirical stuff, the teachings that touch on verification. I think that is important too.

Ed
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5
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