Kill the Buddha- save the world

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Nyana
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:12 am

Last edited by Nyana on Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

danieLion
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby danieLion » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:27 am


Nyana
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Nyana » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:33 am


danieLion
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby danieLion » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:50 am


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Ben
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Ben » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:15 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

danieLion
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby danieLion » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 am


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m0rl0ck
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:52 am

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Viscid
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Viscid » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:35 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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manas
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby manas » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:49 pm

If we make decisions based on the notion that our thoughts, words and actions will have kammic consequences in the future, and if we base that on "well the Buddha has been correct about so many other things, maybe he is right about this one, too - maybe the sutta recorders have indeed accurately handed down this doctrine. I'm not 100% certain yet, not having seen it directly, but I had better live my life as though it were, and make decisions accordingly" - then yes, we are exercising a measure of what I would call informed faith. Not blind. Based on my experience of the Dhamma working for me thus far, and on the fact that men and women of great virtue. calm and insight (various advanced practitioners I have met over the years) also live their lives as though the law of kamma & rebirth according to kamma is real (whether or not they have seen it in operation directly as yet). I don't feel like a supertitious ninny for this.

So if I (or some others I suspect) take issue with Harris, it is on this idea: that we could completely dispense with faith, and still be practising the Dhamma. I'm not so sure about that (unless one has higher powers and has directly seen the faring-on of beings according to kamma - not many have done so nowdays afaik). I sense that this flows from the modern-day subconscious deification of science as the highest authority in matters of truth. While science does have it's place and usefulness, there are some questions it cannot answer - and maybe never will. I'm not saying throw out science, no; I'm just pointing out a prejudice that might be influencing Harris' view on faith (ie, seeing it as totally unneccessary).

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

danieLion
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby danieLion » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:43 am

Nana,
The Buddha taught that pasada/conviction--"faith" is the worst possible translation--as a sufficient but not necessary condition to fabricate The Path. I never said I don't have pasada--everyone has at least some "faith," otherwise one could not even start walking The Path. The "aversion" you imagine I have to pasada is creative but completely off the mark, and it's not clear what you mean by "aversion". The Buddha was clearly aversive to stupidity. I'm merely following his example.

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mikenz66
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:03 am

Well, of course, translation is a problem with many of these Pali terms. In the case of pasada one could argue that "faith" presses some unfortunate buttons, but personally I think "conviction" is a rather wimpy way to describe the determination one needs in the face adversity. ("I'll just do what I'm convinced about...").

There are, of course, similar problems with nibbida, where "disgust" is perhaps too strong, but "disenchanted" is a bit wimpy...
http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issu ... all03l.htm

:anjali:
Mike

Nyana
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:31 am


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polarbear101
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby polarbear101 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:27 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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mikenz66
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:51 am


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polarbear101
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby polarbear101 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:04 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:08 am

Greetings,

Faith may mean simply that one trusts that something is good.

:candle:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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polarbear101
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby polarbear101 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:21 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

santa100
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby santa100 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:28 pm

I never doubt the Buddha's wisdom and His enlightenment nor doubting the potential for awakening in myself and other people. But just like anything else in life, the potential for awakening could only be transformed into real fruit depended directly upon how much effort one is willing to put into making it happen. And this is the area where I don't have 100% confidence in: whether I'll have the strongest determination to put in all of my effort and time single-mindedly for this objective. Remember the Buddha didn't have any secret formula or quick shortcut to reach enlightenment. His "secret formula" was simple: utmost effort and perseverance. Unfortunately for us mortals, this plain simple truth is also the most difficult one to carry out. So bottom line is, "faith" in the Buddha, or the Dhamma, or the Sangha isn't the question. The right question should be: do you have faith in "yourself"? And the individual will need to work hard on it to find out..

Nyana
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby Nyana » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:10 pm


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polarbear101
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Re: Kill the Buddha- save the world

Postby polarbear101 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:55 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."


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