Arahants

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
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tiltbillings
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Re: Arahants

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:16 am

vishuroshan wrote:DHARMA IS FOR YOU TO PRACTICE AND ITS VERY PRIVATE. DON’T TRY TO SHOW IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD. (VEN VAJIRA BUDDHI)


DHARMA IS FOR YOU TO PRACTICE AND ITS VERY PRIVATE. DON’T TRY TO SHOW IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD.

I can certainly agree with that, but again, you need to take these words seriously to heart. Please do not do this venerable a disservice by being overly zealous, running the risk of casting him in a bad light. Thank you for drawing our attention to him.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:42 am

i dont think it will harm him and Dhamma. this are the words which came out of his mouth. One day i was wearing a chain with DHARMA CHAKRA(DHAMMA WHEEL). that day he told me this quote by showing my chain with dhamma wheel. i removed it after that.

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Re: Arahants

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:31 pm

vishuroshan wrote:dear sarath, just by listning to dhamma you cannot see his wisdom. you need to meet him, stay with him for a long time. whatever he has said is truth. thrs a problem in the web site.


Hi Roshan
I just finish listening to the 4th Dhamma Talk by this Venerable given in your link. I was disappointed to see him advocating that drinking alcohol is not an unwholesome activity. If you need to see a proper Dhamma talk in this particular subject please see the attached and compare the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAMp3oQCl4

Please also note the composition of the crowed. About 95% are women. This is not a co-incidence considering the fact that about 95% of Sri Lankan men drink alcohol.
If you need to discuss this issue (unwholesomeness of drinking alcohol) please do so in the attached thread.
Just for your information, I stopped drinking alcohol after joining Dhamma wheel about 12 months ago because the forum members convince me drinking alcohol is a hindrance to follow the path. I am glad I took that decision.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19594

I apologies for the forum members who can’t understand Sinhalese language.
Metta

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:50 pm

after listening to this 4th DHAMMA DISCUSSION most of the poeple who were alocholiics have come to meet Ven. vajira buddhi and they stopped dringking. if you listen to the whole dhamma discussion, you will know it. he does not have an intension to encourage people to drink. but what he tells is truth. if you refer to many suttas you will know that BUDDHA has not included ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION under SAMMA KAMMANTHA/ or SEELA. we have included it. and many people look at THESE PEOPLE in a wrong way. but there are so many people who do evil deeds, who engage in gossips, ..etc. but we blame mostly drinking people. and those who drink, think that they are defuinitly going to hell. its wrong. we should not make them scared like that in one hand.
Kindly note that he's not encouraging people to drink. and as you were an alcoholic before, you must be knowing that all the people who drinks are not criminals. sometimes they are very helpful people as well.

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:01 am

Dear sarath,

Proper dhamma is the ultimate truth. if its not truth, its not Dhamma. just because someone tels you a lie in a nice way(kindful way) it will not be a proper dhamma, if someone tells you the truth, real dhamma in a rough voice, in a bad way, still its the real dhamma. remember that well.

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Re: Arahants

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:09 am

cooran wrote:Really vishuroshan? How do you know this person is an Arahant?

With metta,
Chris


Further info re above:

A Puthujjana cannot take
the mind of an Arahant as an object. And also a Sotāpanna, a
Sakadāgāmī and an Anāgāmī cannot take the mind of an
Arahant as object. Why? It is simply because they have not
attained these Cittas. If they had attained these Cittas, they
might be able to take these Cittas as objects. Since they have
not yet attained them, they cannot take them as objects.

That means a Puthujjana cannot take Sotāpatti-magga
or Sotāpatti-phala as objects simply because he has not
attained those Cittas. What about the Sotāpanna? Can he take
the Sakadāgāmī-magga and Phala as objects? No, he cannot
take those higher states as object. The lower Noble Persons
cannot take the consciousness of higher Noble Persons. Higher
Noble Persons can take the consciousness of lower Noble
Persons.

Page 391

http://buddhispano.net/sites/default/fi ... dies-I.pdf

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:05 am

Dear sarath,
kindly note that when Upatissa /kolitha saw ARAHAT ASSAJI, they saw the appearance, and they saw that he’s a tamed person. I know that its not 100% . But their previous KUSALA lead him to identify the real TEACHER and DHAMMA. When UPAKA AAJIWAKA (ascetic) saw BUDDHA he didn’t stay with Buddha. Hi was not attracted to BUDDHA . even Buddha has adviced that one should spend long time to identify the PURITY /Virtue of a person and he/she should have wisdom to identify them. I know that the mind status is not the same for Prutagjana. But if has enough Kusala(merits) he will identify the Nobel one. Otherwise no one will be attracted to Arahats as you were saying.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.192.than.html

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:45 am

Q: If putting everything together in our bowls is important, why don't you as a teacher do it yourself? Don't you feel it is important for the teacher to set an example?

Answer: Yes, it is true, a teacher should set an example for his disciples. I don't mind that you criticize me. Ask whatever you wish. But it is important that you do not cling to the teacher. If I were absolutely perfect in outward form, it would be terrible. You would all be too attached to me. Even the Buddha would sometimes tell his disciples to do one thing and then do another himself. Your doubts in your teacher can help you. You should watch your own reactions. Do you think it is possible that I keep some food out of my bowl in dishes to feed the laymen who work around the temple? Wisdom is for yourself to watch and develop. Take from the teacher what is good. Be aware of your own practice. If I am resting while you must all sit up, does this make you angry? If I call the color blue red or say that male is female, don't follow me blindly. One of my teachers ate very fast. He made noises as he ate. Yet he told us to eat slowly and mindfully. I used to watch him and get very upset. I suffered, but he didn't! I watched the outside. Later I learned. Some people drive very fast but carefully. Others drive slowly and have many accidents. Don't cling to rules, to outer form. If you watch others at most ten percent of the time and watch yourself ninety percent, this is the proper practice. At first I used to watch my teacher Ajahn Tong Raht and had many doubts. People even thought he was mad. He would do strange things or get very fierce with his disciples. Outside he was angry, but inside there was nothing. Nobody there. He was remarkable. He stayed clear and mindful until the moment he died. Looking outside the self is comparing, discriminating. You will not find happiness that way. Nor will you find peace if you spend your time looking for the perfect man or the perfect teacher. The Buddha taught us to look at the Dhamma, the truth, not to look at other people.

(AJAHN CHAH)

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Re: Arahants

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:25 am

An Arahant would not advertise himself as an Arahant.

Perhaps a foolish puthujjana disciple of a monk, who had blind devotion might think his teacher was an Arahant, and advertise his web site with that claim. If asked to substantiate it, how could he do so? Therefore, even it were true, which I am sure it is not, to claim it would only lead to trouble, so it should not be done.

The foolish will follow foolish teachers, while the wise will seek out the wise.
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:36 am

Dear peshala,

when Buddha went to MEET the 5 monks(initialy). he told them that he's SAMMA SAMBUDDHA. kindly note that this web page is not maintaining by THERO. its maintained by a Lay person. he has mentioned the word ARAHANT. i thinki there's no problem of that. and please use your words carefully. it can give you bad results.

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Re: Arahants

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Disciples of the Buddha have to follow the training rules laid down by him.

The Buddha had no one else as his teacher.

You should use your words carefully, but you do not.
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Re: Arahants

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:41 pm

BlackBird wrote:
They are taking their deep meditation to be nibbana and it's a mistake.


That is all.
metta
Jack


I dont think that guy has a clue on the subject of "primordial mind" as he named in once in the video. If you cant speak competently about a tradition, you should just do the smart thing and shut up.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

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Re: Arahants

Postby Kusala » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:05 am

vishuroshan wrote:VEN. ARAHAT VAJIRA BUDDHI is an ARAHAT who lives in sri lanka . http://www.pathtonibbana.com


Robbery by False Pretences http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#robbery

"A bhikkhu who boasts of ['superior human states."] which he has not in fact attained, commits [an offence of Defeat.]" (Paar. 4; Nv p.5)

"Deliberately lying to another person that one has attained a superior human state is [an offence of Defeat.]" (Summary Paar. 4; BMC p.86)
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Homage to the Buddha
Thus indeed, is that Blessed One: He is the Holy One, fully enlightened, endowed with clear vision and virtuous conduct, sublime, the Knower of the worlds, the incomparable leader of men to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed.

Homage to the Teachings
The Dhamma of the Blessed One is perfectly expounded; to be seen here and now; not delayed in
time; inviting one to come and see; onward leading (to Nibbana); to be known by the wise, each for himself.

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:56 am

dear friend,
BOASTING is different, telling hs attainment inorder to help somone is different. it depends on the chetana. coz Buddha already told his attainment to people. it depends on the chetana. even arahat can tel his attainment. im not saying that they advertise everywhere. and also people can call them arahats according to their faith.

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:58 am

pls note this phrase "which he has not in fact attained". if he has attained? buddha has not told that thos who attained cannot tel their attainments.

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Re: Arahants

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:26 am

vishuroshan wrote: . . .
I think we all have it now that you think the monk in question is an arahant. Arguing about it really does him no justice and all that does is makes you look bad and your claim of arahant status for this monk suffers. The best you can do, for him and yourself, is simply model his good behavior without being annoying. Right now you are pushing towards being annoying.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:31 am

i dont hve an intention to be annoying for others. anyway,what you said iscorrect i should not argue.

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Re: Arahants

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:33 am

vishuroshan wrote:i dont hve an intention to be annoying for others. anyway,what you said iscorrect i should not argue.
Thank you.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:07 am

dear sarath, thank you for your message(other forum). listen to those dhamma discussions more than 10 times. then you will begin to understand little by little. you will not understand it at once. he was meditating in ATHDALAGALA AARANYA(Anuradapura). it inside ATHDALAGALA forest. obviously when you are practicing meditation everyday, sometimes for about 15 hours constantly(as per thero), you will automaticaly undertake all the percepts. all 10 percepts. coz SILA is the foundation. without that you cannot develop Samadhi/Pragna. its not about the rules and regulations, watching your own mind is the most important thing. when you directly watch your mind, you will undertake all the percepts. ( CHETANA is the kamma). you will eat carefully, without craving, you will sleep carefully without craving, you will talk without craving..etc. so obviously you will go beyond the basic sila. when you feel greedy you will know, when you get angry you wil know. when you are jelous you will know. look at your mind. dont cling to rules blindly.
hope you understand.

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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:40 am

dont judge by external appearances, the mind is the important thing. when you speak your mind follows that speech. but an enlighted one may do or say things which his mind doesn't follow. because it adheres to DHAMMA and VINAYA. his speech may appear to be rough and careless. his actions may seem coarse. all we can see are his bodily and verbal actions. but the mind which adheres to dhamma and vinaya cant be seen. adhere to the Buddha's instructions. " DONT BE HEEDLESS, HEEDLESSNESS IS DEATH".
Ven. Ajahn Chah


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