Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom
danieLion
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Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby danieLion » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:27 am

Before I became dedicated to trying to live by the precepts, I would've had no problem telling employers I'm a very reliable employee despite the fact that I know I'm the type of employee who's likely to call in sick (chronic pain, scoliosis, spinal arthritis, bone spurs, migraines, irritable bowel, depression, anxiety, etc...) frequently.

But now I feel compelled to be honest and explicit about these things with prospective employers, so as to avoid "violating" the fourth precept (abstainging from false speech).

This seems like a dilemma to me because being so honest will likely insure I don't get a much needed job.

Who's going to hire someone who can't committ to reliablity?

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Dan74
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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby Dan74 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:17 am

Just say you are committed to being the best employee you can (which is hopefully the truth) and tell them about other issues if they ask?

Is there no legislation anywhere in the States that says that discrimination on the basis of ill health is illegal?
_/|\_

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marc108
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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby marc108 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 am

i'm not sure that not throwing all your problems on the table is violating the 4th precept, but i appreciate and understand your desire to be honest and i think its a good idea.

my suggestion to you would be to find an organization that helps disabled people get jobs and get a job that will actually be interested in helping you, rather than getting a job that is going to shit on you and stress you out when you're truly unable to work. theres an entire govt organization dedicated to this: http://www.opm.gov/disability/

also:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jobs+fo ... led+people

i'm sure you've looked into it, but i'll also throw out that you can get federal disability and still work. a lady i work with is on disability and works like 15 hours a week. do you get SSI or anything?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:48 am

Dan74 wrote:Just say you are committed to being the best employee you can (which is hopefully the truth) and tell them about other issues if they ask?

There is a equal oportunities/medical questionare for some jobs form where I am, and anything like this goes in there. I like Dan74's suggestion.

You do not have to be completely frank but you also need to be clear with what you say.
good luck with the job search!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby Anagarika » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:21 pm

It may also be true that speech that inflicts harm on oneself is not Right Speech, ie "because of my illness, I have no intention of being a stellar employee," or, "you the interviewer, you, Sir, are profoundly ugly and I'm afraid if I worked here I would stare at that wart on your nose all day." I think there's a limit as to how much negative self disclosure is necessary. We all have limitations. I do feel that the intention of Right Speech starts with ourselves, and this kind of speech need not be self ruinous speech.

Put your best foot forward. Be honest, but don't shoot yourself in that same foot. Get the job, and then surprise yourself later when you win 'employee of the year' despite your limitations. Again, we all have limitations and its incumbent upon ourselves to be thankful for the inspiration these limitations provide our practice.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... peech.html

Ven. Thanissaro:
Notice the focus on intent: this is where the practice of right speech intersects with the training of the mind. Before you speak, you focus on why you want to speak. This helps get you in touch with all the machinations taking place in the committee of voices running your mind. If you see any unskillful motives lurking behind the committee's decisions, you veto them. As a result, you become more aware of yourself, more honest with yourself, more firm with yourself. You also save yourself from saying things that you'll later regret.

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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby shaunc » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:31 am

BuddhaSoup wrote:It may also be true that speech that inflicts harm on oneself is not Right Speech, ie "because of my illness, I have no intention of being a stellar employee," or, "you the interviewer, you, Sir, are profoundly ugly and I'm afraid if I worked here I would stare at that wart on your nose all day." I think there's a limit as to how much negative self disclosure is necessary. We all have limitations. I do feel that the intention of Right Speech starts with ourselves, and this kind of speech need not be self ruinous speech.

Put your best foot forward. Be honest, but don't shoot yourself in that same foot. Get the job, and then surprise yourself later when you win 'employee of the year' despite your limitations. Again, we all have limitations and its incumbent upon ourselves to be thankful for the inspiration these limitations provide our practice.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... peech.html

Ven. Thanissaro:
Notice the focus on intent: this is where the practice of right speech intersects with the training of the mind. Before you speak, you focus on why you want to speak. This helps get you in touch with all the machinations taking place in the committee of voices running your mind. If you see any unskillful motives lurking behind the committee's decisions, you veto them. As a result, you become more aware of yourself, more honest with yourself, more firm with yourself. You also save yourself from saying things that you'll later regret.


This is a great answer IMO. Remaining silent is not the same as telling a lie unless one has been asked a direct question.

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Re: Job Seeking, Chronic Illness, & the 4th Precept

Postby danieLion » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:36 am

Thanks all.
Putting all your advice into effect.
:anjali:


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