Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom

Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby Tachibana » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:19 am

A person who has not yet reached the Sotaapana stage is a puthujjana, a puthujjana that wishes to reach the Ariyaa stage is dissatisfied of his current condition, so what are the benefits of having practiced the Dhamma in a wrong way ?

A birth in the Deva's realm ?
Well, that's pretty pathetic since it's not the goal of the Dhamma practice (it's even harder to realize a Fruit there).

A birth in the human realm ?
Well, except if you can keep your memories you shoudn't expect so much of such a birth... unless if you're a Sakadaagaami.

The goal of every true buddhist is the end of suffering, birth, pain, aging, sickness and death... so how do you call an unsuccessful practice ? A failure.
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:22 am

Tachibana wrote:A person who has not yet reached the Sotaapana stage is a puthujjana, a puthujjana that wishes to reach the Ariyaa stage is dissatisfied of his current condition, so what are the benefits of having practiced the Dhamma in a wrong way ?

A birth in the Deva's realm ?
Well, that's pretty pathetic since it's not the goal of the Dhamma practice (it's even harder to realize a Fruit there).

A birth in the human realm ?
Well, except if you can keep your memories you shoudn't expect so much of such a birth... unless if you're a Sakadaagaami.

The goal of every true buddhist is the end of suffering, birth, pain, aging, sickness and death... so how do you call an unsuccessful practice ? A failure.
And so you are repeating yourself, telling us nothing. Maybe everyone needs to watch anime, but outside of that it may take someone a period of time to awaken?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby Tachibana » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:25 am

Ben wrote:
Tachibana wrote:But there have been several days since I pretend having reached the Sakadaagaami's stage.


So, to be clear - you are pretending you are a sakadagami.

Is that correct?



I don't know if "to pretend" has the same meaning in English and in French, so I'm going to explain what it means in French :
it means I'm uttering that I am a Sakadaagaami, it means I'm saying that I'm a sakadaagaami.

If you do not believe me, then go away, answering useless questions is a waste of time.
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:29 am

Tachibana wrote:If you do not believe me, then go away, answering useless questions is a waste of time.
Why should we believe you? Just because you say you are ariya does not mean it is true. So far you have shown little actual practical understanding of Dhamma practice, but you have shown a fair amount of ego and crankiness. Again, why should we believe you?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby Tachibana » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:32 am

Ok I finally understood your question... sorry for keeping you wait.

I reached the Sotaapana's stage at the moment I saw my beloved protagonist disappear.

But that wasn't my goal, I just wanted to end up sadness, so after about 7 hours of vipassanaa practice I finally reached the Sakadaagaami's stage.

It took me some time and I indeed consider that I was wrong all the time until I realized the true vipassanaa, the true insight, the Path and the Fruit.
And still now I'm wrong because I'm not an Arahant.


Could we end up with this now ?
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby Tachibana » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:39 am

Ok so if nobody here believes me (or at least is not sure if what I'm saying is true or not) then I let the admin delete this topic.

Please enjoy your wrong practice and your bad kammic effects that results from insulting an Ariyaa (the Buddha also used sarcasm so you can't blame me for this).




With Karunaa
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 am

Tachibana wrote:

Could we end up with this now ?
Of course, but I must say that at best what you are presenting is highly idiosyncratic. You are asking us to believe you are ariya, which is not at all a small thing. As of yet, I see no reason whatsoever to believe you. I can be believe that you have convinced yourself of such, but that it about it. As Chogyam Trungpa was wont to say: Good luck to you, sir.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 am

Finally you're making some sense, Tachibana!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:49 am

lyndon taylor wrote:Finally you're making some sense, Tachibana!!!
Huh?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Producing one of the 4 noble fruits is possible

Postby manas » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:36 pm

Tachibana wrote:Please enjoy your wrong practice and your bad kammic effects that results from insulting an Ariyaa (the Buddha also used sarcasm so you can't blame me for this).

With Karunaa


Tachibana, as you would know from your own experience with Dhamma instructors, monks, etc (which I can only assume you must have had), sometimes sharp words are needed to cut through someone's misapprehension. These words might not be pleasing to the ear, but they could be motivated by compassion nonetheless. A few here have challenged you on a few points, not to insult you, but because misapprehending oneself as having attained ariya, when one actually has not, could have the potential to inhibit one's genuine advancement, so I've heard. Please seek out a Monk or Nun of wisdom and experience, and share what you have gone through, along with your present state, with him or her. I think we all agree with the title of your topic - that the Noble attainments are possible. But if one imagined themselves to be ariya, while actually not being so, can you see how that could inhibit actual progress in the Dhamma? Doesn't it concern you that about half a dozen experienced Dhamma practitioners (one of whom, I suspect, was practicing Buddhism from before when you were born), have cast doubt on the validity of your claim? It is for your own sake that folks have done this, not for the sake of insulting.

with metta
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