The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom

The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Individual » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:37 am

Most of you probably already know the fact that the Buddha said women can't be Buddhas, was hesitant about letting women in the Sangha, and said that doing so would make it become more corrupt more quickly.

In the Sakkapanha sutta (DN 21), it also seems as if birth as a woman is considered inferior to birth as a man, since a girl named Gopika is said to have rejected the status of being a woman and resolved on being reborn a man, and was then rewarded by being born as a male deva.

So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:41 am

Individual wrote:So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?


This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967

Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Fede » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:21 pm

*yawn*..... :coffee:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Individual » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:32 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
Individual wrote:So, what exactly is the status of women? Are they karmically inferior to men, the same way that a human is inferior to a deva, or an animal is inferior to a human?


This has been discussed in many threads already. One here going right now:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1967

Women have full access to liberation and hundreds, perhaps thousands were Arahants during the time of Buddha. They are not inferior to males. And devas are not necessarily superior to humans, male or female.

Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:42 pm

Individual wrote:Why would Gopika be resolved on being reborn a man?


Do you have a copy of the relevant quotes from DN? I don't have my copy with me right now.

But even if she did resolve that, it obviously is not necessarily a "correct" thing to do as she did not attain liberation. Rebirth as a deva is still rebirth. I suppose a man desiring to be a woman, might one day get his wish too, not necessarily being good or bad, just no liberation.

Being a deva is not always better than human and in many cases it is not; as the human realm is considered the best mix of pleasure and pain, regardless if you are male or female.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby cooran » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:09 pm

Hello Individual,

As a Woman .......

Anyone who gets upset about this hasn't quite understood the basics of Dhamma.

Each of us is neither Male nor Female. We may have a particular form in this birth, but have had uncountable other forms (most non-human) in uncountable other rebirths.

Our gender and species is due to our kamma/vipaka. And let's leave Who It Is Who Is Reborn out of it in this thread please.

In any society, human or otherwise, one gender is the (ostensibly and overtly) more powerful, does the ruling, the impregnating and the fighting.

In the human realm (as in the animal realm), males are usually bigger and stronger and more prone to exploration, fighting, and have privileges like education - don't become pregnant with the need to concentrate on child rearing.

Nothing special about the fact that women cannot be a Sammasambuddha in the lifetime she is in female form. None of the men can either - not while the Teachings are still available in the world. But women can become Fullly Enlightened Arahants - just as men presently can. Any being who is in a female form right now has as much chance of being a Sammasambuddha as any man .... about fifty hundred thousand million trillion billion to one (never was much good at maths :tongue: ).

And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again. :rofl:

karuna,
Chris
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:21 pm

Chris wrote:And, dear Dhamma Brothers, please don't assume you have ever been a male before this life - or that you ever will again. :rofl:


:goodpost:


Especially the misogynistic ones. :shock:
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Fede » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:14 pm

Thanks, Chris, that's a cool post.
Ok, we done now....?

I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why...... :rolleye:

:rofl:


:namaste:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Ben » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Hi Fede
Fede wrote:I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why...... :rolleye:

:rofl:


:namaste:


I thought the answer to that question was obvious...
Its because you're British!
Cheers

Ben
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby appicchato » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:52 am

Ben wrote:...Its because you're British!

Hunh-uh...Italian...(I think) :popcorn:
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Ben » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:26 am

My pardon!
I assumed Fede is British because she lives in England!
Oh well, my mistake!
Metta

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:38 am

Thanks for that Chris.

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:41 am

Ben wrote:Hi Fede
Fede wrote:I have an irresistible urge to break wind and thrust my hands in my pockets, looking bored.


Can't think why...... :rolleye:

:rofl:


:namaste:


I thought the answer to that question was obvious...
Its because you're British!
Cheers

/quote]

Hi Ben I'm British, so I will carry that one for Fede if she likes. Except of course that I never, ever , break wind. I merely glow a little.

:anjali:

Valerie.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Fede » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:48 pm

The British retain their wind.
hence, the stiff upper lip.

I am Half English and half Italian, but my passport states I'm British.
I was under the impression - until I was at least 15 - that I had in fact been born in Italy.

I mentioned this to my mother once, who laughed and said 'Noooo - you were born in Bromley!" Then she quietly added -
"But you were made in Italy....." ;)

I have 'Fatta in Piemonte' stamped across my butt..... :rofl:

And I hereby claim the award for the best "Waaaaaaaay off-topic post" in the whole forum.
I would like it presented to me by Beliefnet,

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1879

and I'd like Peter

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1993

to give it to me if this thread gets moved to the free-for-all forum.

I thank you.

:namaste:
Last edited by Fede on Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:22 am

I accept that honor. :clap:
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: The status of women, according to the Buddha?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:32 am

Fede wrote:The British retain their wind.
hence, the stiff upper lip.



:lol:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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