Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

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Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby SarathW » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:09 pm

I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.
It appears thousands of monks were slaughtered during invasion.
Can a country be protected if higher proportion of the nations is monks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Hqkwb2Szc
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:29 pm

“Dhammo have rakkhati dhammacārī,Dhammo suciṇṇo sukhamāvahati,
Esānisaṃso dhamme suciṇṇe,Na duggati gacchati dhammacārī.”


  • Dhammo: virtuous conduct; dhammacārī: one who practises the dhamma; have: indeed rakkhati: takes care of, guards. Dhamma takes care of the person who practises it. It does not take care of the person who does not practise it; it only takes care of the person who practises it.
  • Suciṇṇo: properly practised; dhammo; sukhaṃ: happiness, well-being; āvahati: brings. Properly practised, Dhamma brings happiness to the person who practises it.
  • Dhammacārī: one who practises the dhamma; duggati: bad destination, miserable realms; nagacchati: does not go, is not reborn; esa: this; dhamme suciṇṇe: properly practised dhamma, virtuous conduct; anisaṃso: benefit. One who practises the Dhamma properly does not go to bad destinations.

Did Venerable Moggallāna practise the Dhamma properly? Was his excellent practice able to protect him from being murdered? No, because his previous evil kamma was more powerful. However, his practice of the Dhamma did protect him from going to bad destinations.
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Virgo » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:54 pm

The Dhamma is not magic. If someone practices it, they will create good kamma and slowly develop understanding, but as Venerable Pesala said, we cannot escape the results of past kamma created.

Who knows what vipaaka (result of previous made kamma) will arise. If it was easy to protect ourselves through the practice of Dhamma, or magic, or chanting, etc., then Buddhists would not have any problems.


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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Ananda26 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:42 pm

SarathW wrote:I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.
It appears thousands of monks were slaughtered during invasion.
Can a country be protected if higher proportion of the nations is monks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Hqkwb2Szc


The Dhamma may have protected them in the next life. By abstaining from bad kamma and doing good kamma they may have attained a fortunate rebirth.

Killing monks is a very bad kamma. If one kills an Arahant one would be reborn in hell.

Buddha knows this world and the next world. One should attend wisely to what Buddha has said. He also has experience in secular matters such as how to protect people in accordance with the dhamma.

In the Vinaya there is an account of very large groups of men becoming monks. This was happening again and again. Then somebody said something about it to the Buddha and Buddha made it a rule that the man had to be free from service requirement to become a monk. People need a good military to protect themselves.
Last edited by Ananda26 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Zom » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:04 pm

I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.


Because in Tibet there is no true Dhamma, but mainly the false one.
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:39 pm

There is no Dhamma in Tibet; they only have Dharma. :tongue:

The workings of kamma shouldn't be speculated on in that way. As others have noted, even great beings had kamma-vipaka, so no need to speculate on why a whole group has some bad kamma happen.
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby binocular » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:54 pm

SarathW wrote:I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.
It appears thousands of monks were slaughtered during invasion.
Can a country be protected if higher proportion of the nations is monks?

Have you looked into what the Dalai Lama has to say on this topic?
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby ArkA » Thu May 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Virgo wrote:If it was easy to protect ourselves through the practice of Dhamma, or magic, or chanting, etc., then Buddhists would not have any problems.


Anguttara Nikaya 5.43, Ittha Sutta.

SarathW, don't forget that the Buddha's whole Sakyan clan was murdered! :guns:
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby manas » Fri May 09, 2014 1:05 am

Zom wrote:
I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.


Because in Tibet there is no true Dhamma, but mainly the false one.


Hi Zom,

wow you must have been around at the time of the Buddha then, to be able to so boldly proclaim which Dhamma is true, and which is false.

kind regards
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Weakfocus » Fri May 09, 2014 3:28 am

manas wrote:
Zom wrote:
I was watching the following video and wonder why Dhamma did not protect Tibetan people.


Because in Tibet there is no true Dhamma, but mainly the false one.


Hi Zom,

wow you must have been around at the time of the Buddha then, to be able to so boldly proclaim which Dhamma is true, and which is false.

kind regards
manas


The events in Tibet are recent history, one need not be 2600 years old to talk about them. The Tibetean Buddhism is a mutated type of Buddhism found in many countries these days: it is more like modern Hinduism in that it is mostly about ceremonies and keeping external appearances of 'spirtuality' with little emphasis on beneficial meditative practices like Anapanasati. Buddha's teaching were opposite of this, so it is not a stretch to say that most Tibeteans did not practice true Dhamma.

Having said that, we cannot say with certainty that the same misfortune would not have befallen on Tibetean populace had they been a society of intense meditators, living life in accordance with Dhamma. While there are a few passage in Suttas where Buddha guides rulers on good governance and how to ensure protection of their kingdom (and its people), the overwhelming bulk of his teaching concerns the individual, and how to guide him or her towards the end of suffering.

Buddha's teachings are not about ensuring perpetual prosperity and protection of countries as a whole. When Buddha said that all conditioned things are subject to decay, he did not make any exemptions. Not for his teaching, not the sangha and certainly not the societies in which his teachings are practiced. Standing on this side of history we can see how Buddha's teachings were almost wiped out from the planet in these past 2600 years and just how much the political map of the world has changed in the past few centuries. Why should Tibet and its pop-Buddhism be any exemption.
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby pegembara » Fri May 09, 2014 4:59 am

The Dhamma protects the mind from the dangers of greed, hatred and delusion - protection from physical dangers is only partial.

Nalanda was one of the world's first residential universities, i.e., it had dormitories for students. It is also one of the most famous universities. In its heyday, it accommodated over 10,000 students and 2,000 teachers. Chinese pilgrims estimated the students between 3,000 and 5,000.[20] The university was considered an architectural masterpiece, and was marked by a lofty wall and one gate. Nalanda had eight separate compounds and ten temples, along with many other meditation halls and classrooms. On the grounds were lakes and parks. The library was located in a nine storied building where meticulous copies of texts were produced. The subjects taught at Nalanda University covered every field of learning, and it attracted pupils and scholars from Korea, Japan, China, Tibet, Indonesia, Persia and Turkey.[3] During the period of Harsha, the monastery is reported to have owned 200 villages given as grants.

The Tang Dynasty Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang left detailed accounts of the university in the 7th century. He described how the regularly laid-out towers, forest of pavilions, harmikas and temples seemed to "soar above the mists in the sky" so that from their cells the monks "might witness the birth of the winds and clouds."[21] The pilgrim states: "An azure pool winds around the monasteries, adorned with the full-blown cups of the blue lotus; the dazzling red flowers of the lovely kanaka hang here and there, and outside groves of mango trees offer the inhabitants their dense and protective shade."[22]

The entrance of many of the viharas in the Nalanda University ruins can be seen with a bow marked floor; the bow was the royal sign of the Guptas.

Evidence in literature suggests that in 1193, the Nalanda University was sacked by[13] Bakhtiyar Khilji, a Turk.[14] The Persian historian Minhaj-i-Siraj, in his chronicle the Tabaqat-I-Nasiri, reported that thousands of monks were burned alive and thousands beheaded as Khilji tried his best to uproot Buddhism. The burning of the library continued for several months and "smoke from the burning manuscripts hung for days like a dark pall over the low hills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda
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Re: Couldn’t Dhamma protect Tibet?

Postby Jetavan » Fri May 09, 2014 8:14 pm

The Dhamma doesn't operate at such high altitudes.
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