Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:39 am

Bankei wrote:
suanck wrote:
zavk wrote:

Since Pali (and Sanskrit) and Classical Chinese are difficult languages to master -- and require several years to study, I wonder if it's better to have joint effort, collaboration / team effort, for a group of scholars (some are fluent in Pali & some are fluent in Classical Chinese) to work together on the subject, instead of individual studies?

Suan


Actually Ven Analayo has teamed up with Rod Bucknell and Sujato Bhikkhu on a project. see http://suttacentral.net/contacts.htm

Rod Bucknell has written a few articles (some in JIABS) and a few books too, he was formerly a monk in Thailand and later a lecturer in Buddhist Studies at QLD Uni and is proficient in Chinese, Sanskrit, Thai and a few more.


He wrote a really neat little article on the samyuttas of the Sagatha-vagga in the Samyuttanikaya, published in the Buddhist studies review.
Well worth a look at. He was also Choong's supervisor for the latter's studies which lead to the Notion of Emptiness book.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:02 am

Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19763
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:49 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).


You wanna?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:52 am

Paññāsikhara wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).


You wanna?
Publish? Not any more. Read the article you mentioned? Yes indeedy.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19763
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby suanck » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:34 am

Paññāsikhara wrote:
Bankei wrote:

Actually Ven Analayo has teamed up with Rod Bucknell and Sujato Bhikkhu on a project. see http://suttacentral.net/contacts.htm

Rod Bucknell has written a few articles (some in JIABS) and a few books too, he was formerly a monk in Thailand and later a lecturer in Buddhist Studies at QLD Uni and is proficient in Chinese, Sanskrit, Thai and a few more.


He wrote a really neat little article on the samyuttas of the Sagatha-vagga in the Samyuttanikaya, published in the Buddhist studies review.
Well worth a look at. He was also Choong's supervisor for the latter's studies which lead to the Notion of Emptiness book.


I believe Ven Analayo, Ven Sujato, and Dr Bucknell are good in Pali, but I am not sure if they are proficient in Classical Chinese (although as stated by Ven Pannasikhara, Dr Bucknell was Dr Choong's supervisor).

Suan
suanck
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:51 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:42 am

I am not sure, either. Though I have heard and definitely think that Bhante Analayo can read it.

There is still quite some difference between recognizing characters and reading sentences with the aid of a dictionary, and just being able to sit down and read the text straight off, knowing each word, it's Pali / Sanskrit equivalent, and appropriate grammar, function, etc. within the sentence in question.

I'll have a look into that Bucknell article again, later today.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Bankei » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:56 am

I think Rod Bcuknell used to teach classical Chinese at UQ and also recall seeing a book on Sanskrit he authored. He has also translated some of Buddhadassa's books from Thai to English.
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Kare » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:03 am

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Stephen Hodge is working on a book on the Chinese language of the early Agama translations, explaining it for Pali students. Here is a very interesting chapter from that book:

http://pratyeka.org/btc/
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
 
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby suanck » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:40 am

Thanks, Kare. That's very interesting.

BTW, on the subject of translation, I have been told that the entire Pali Tipitaka, the 4 Chinese Agamas, and 3 Chinese Vinaya sets (from the Dharmagupta, Mahasanghika, and Sarvastivada schools) have been translated into the modern Vietnamese language in the last 50 years, and are also available on the Internet. Don't know if there are similar attempts of translation to other contemportary languages?

Suan
suanck
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:51 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Bankei » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:47 am

This may be of interest

http://buddhistinformatics.ddbc.edu.tw/analayo/

Dharma Drum Buddhist College Website
for research projects involving Bhikkhu Anālayo
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:43 am

suanck wrote:Thanks, Kare. That's very interesting.

BTW, on the subject of translation, I have been told that the entire Pali Tipitaka, the 4 Chinese Agamas, and 3 Chinese Vinaya sets (from the Dharmagupta, Mahasanghika, and Sarvastivada schools) have been translated into the modern Vietnamese language in the last 50 years, and are also available on the Internet. Don't know if there are similar attempts of translation to other contemportary languages?

Suan


The Japanese have long had their own versions of both the Nikayas and Agamas, as well as the rest of the traditional Chinese canon. I think the first was done in a huge govt sponsored program in the 20s / 30s, and then they did a newer version not so long ago. (Not sure on the details.)
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:47 am

Paññāsikhara wrote:
suanck wrote:Thanks, Kare. That's very interesting.

BTW, on the subject of translation, I have been told that the entire Pali Tipitaka, the 4 Chinese Agamas, and 3 Chinese Vinaya sets (from the Dharmagupta, Mahasanghika, and Sarvastivada schools) have been translated into the modern Vietnamese language in the last 50 years, and are also available on the Internet. Don't know if there are similar attempts of translation to other contemportary languages?

Suan


The Japanese have long had their own versions of both the Nikayas and Agamas, as well as the rest of the traditional Chinese canon. I think the first was done in a huge govt sponsored program in the 20s / 30s, and then they did a newer version not so long ago. (Not sure on the details.)

My Japanese speaking Buddhologist friend say that there is tons of yeoman work stuff in Japanese on the Nikayas and Agamas. Stuff coming out various Buddhist universities that never see the light of English.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19763
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Bankei » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:52 pm

Yes, there are probably more journals on Buddhism published in Japan than the whole English speaking world. This includes Tibetan Buddhist, Chinese, Korean and Indian and Pali Buddhism. Some scholars are starting to publish in English and there are some journals available for free download on the web.

See these ones for some articles:
Buddhist Studies / Bukkyo Kenkyu 仏教研究
http://www.kamoeji.jp/kokusai.html

Japanese Journal of Religious Studies
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/pub ... e_list.htm

Journal of Indian and Buddhist Studies / Indogaku Bukkyogaku Kenkyu インド学仏教学研究
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/vol_issue/nels/AN00018579_en.html

Journal of Pali and Buddhist Studies / Parigaku Bukkyo Bunkagaku パーリ学仏教文化学
http://ci.nii.ac.jp/vol_issue/nels/AN1040032X_en.html

Journal of the International College for Postgraduate Buddhist Studies/国際仏教学大学院大学研究紀要
http://www.icabs.ac.jp/IcabsE/publication/2-7-1.html

The Eastern Buddhist
http://web.otani.ac.jp/EBS/current_contents.html

There are also journals in China, Korea and Taiwan that publish on early Buddhism and Pali Buddhism, some in English too such as:
Chung-Hwa Buddhist Journal
http://www.chibs.edu.tw/publication/c_pub_frm.htm
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:50 pm

It's scarcely surprising, considering the Japanese starting learning Pali Buddhism from the Germans, along with their philological methodologies, from about 100 yrs ago. And it is well known that Japanese studies such as "critically edited texts", and other such meticulous artifacts, are done very well.

And as I said above, considering that they've had their own translation of the Nikayas for quite some time, too, even if one can't read a word of Pali, they can still make some pretty good comparisons between the various Nikayas and Agamas. Let alone those whose Pali is excellent.

It is fairly well known that maybe a generation or so ago, (some whom are still professors here and there), learnt their East Asian Buddhism in Japan, and then came back to the West to write PhDs and other books, articles, etc. basically just translating a wealth of studies in Japanese (often uncited and unannounced). What was touted as "modern Western scholarship" may actually have other sources... (won't mention any names! :P )

Now, if that isn't enough to remind the West that quite frankly, we are really new to this Buddhism thing, then just think what is going to happen when the Chinese finally start catching up on this scholarship stuff. It often amazes me, and I really am not joking, when I see that the amount of Buddhist studies and general Buddhism materials being translated from English into Chinese, far, far, far exceeds the amount going the other way. A lot of the Chinese are catching up on the new scholarship, and more and more are learning Tibetan (hey!, Tibet is now part of China, apparently), and Sanskrit and Pali too.

I guess this is all just another reminder in the great big "Welcome to the 21st century" game!
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:51 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:
You wanna?
Publish? Not any more. Read the article you mentioned? Yes indeedy.


Any comments on that article, Mr Billings?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Previous

Return to Theravāda for the modern world

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests