YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma - Dhamma Wheel

The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Bankei
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby Bankei » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:30 am

Hi

I have noticed that there are many people out there who reject the Abhidhamma yet still call themselves Theravadins. This includes a few monks. There are others that take the Sutta and Vinaya as primary but still see some (lesser) value in the Abhidhamma.

Why do you think this is so? And,
Is this just a recent thing or is there evidence, in the commentaries etc, of others in the past who have held this view.

Thanks

Bankei
-----------------------
Bankei

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:03 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:41 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:45 am

Last edited by tiltbillings on Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:47 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:50 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:52 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:55 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:10 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:16 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:25 am

Last edited by tiltbillings on Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:32 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:40 am


User avatar
Kare
Posts: 751
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby Kare » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:57 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

User avatar
Monkey Mind
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:30 pm

I was taught that Abhidhamma is recommended for advanced students only, that most lay people should not study these texts until they have achieved decent proficiency with "basic" teachings. 20 years later, I still feel I have only mediocre proficiency with "basic" teachings, so I continue to avoid the Abhidhamma. I have recently acquired a copy of translation and commentaries recommended by a trusted teacher, so to celebrate my 20th anniversary I will begin workin on it.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:25 pm

Hello Monkey Mind,

I was taught the exact opposite ...... that the Abhidhamma scriptures are the minutely detailed teachings for absolute beginners. The Abhidhamma needs to be studied deeply and remembered.
After that, and only after that, ought one to be introduced to the Suttas.

The Suttas have the Dhamma deeply embedded in them and need to be unpacked by someone well-versed in the Dhamma in order to be properly understood.

A significant Sutta is like a half page of notes carried by someone who is about to give a two hour lecture .... the half page of notes are only memory prompts and need to be expanded by someone who knows the subject intimately.
The Suttas are not sound bites recorded from a conversation with the Buddha. They were specially put in this form, deeply packed with significant teachings, so that they could be memorised by the Bhanakas and regularly chanted together - so that alterations and errors would not go unnoticed, and would be corrected.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Monkey Mind
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: The Modern Bias against Abhidhamma

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:50 pm

Thank you, Chris, that was encouraging.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine