Wat Dhammakaya

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Sokehi » Fri May 30, 2014 7:11 am

pilgrim wrote:Its quite clear there that most ppl here in DW outright reject Dhammakaya. To be exact, we are referring to Wat Phra Dhammakaya and its legal body the Dhammakaya Foundation.

However, what is the opinion of ppl here regarding other organisations that share the same ancestry and meditation technique but are not part of Wat Phra Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya Foundation? One of them is the Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram. Their website http://www.dhammacenter.org/ is down today but there is some information here.
http://meditation-centers.blogspot.com/ ... yaram.html

Societies affiliated with this sub-group have recently also been started outside Thailand.


Thank you for this information! :candle:
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Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakaya

Postby jameswang » Fri May 30, 2014 8:46 am

Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... esia-doesn’t-cooperate-dhammakaya
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Postby Sokehi » Fri May 30, 2014 2:18 pm

jameswang wrote:Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... esia-doesn’t-cooperate-dhammakaya


Your link to the english translation is a bid damaged :anjali:
http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... dhammakaya
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Sat May 31, 2014 8:08 am

pilgrim wrote:Its quite clear there that most ppl here in DW outright reject Dhammakaya. To be exact, we are referring to Wat Phra Dhammakaya and its legal body the Dhammakaya Foundation.

However, what is the opinion of ppl here regarding other organisations that share the same ancestry and meditation technique but are not part of Wat Phra Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya Foundation? One of them is the Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram. Their website http://www.dhammacenter.org/ is down today but there is some information here.
http://meditation-centers.blogspot.com/ ... yaram.html

Societies affiliated with this sub-group have recently also been started outside Thailand.

As I've mentioned earlier, a split has occurred. According to inside info, the Dk group has divided according to personalities the members look up to: Luang Phor Sodh, Khoon Yai Chand, or Dhammajayo/Thammachayo.

Yes, there's now one of Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram in KL, Malaysia now. It's called Bodhi Citta. (As I don't want to increase their google ranking, I'm not including the link.) The practice is "classical Dhammakaya".

Strangely, they all tend to use traditional Mahayana terms. Years ago, I was told by Aj Sujato of their Mahayana influence. Their leaders seems mostly Chinese btw. I suppose there's a connection.
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Postby Kumara » Sat May 31, 2014 8:25 am

jameswang wrote:Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... esia-doesn’t-cooperate-dhammakaya

I've seen this one. Like to clarify that STI only made a short statement, which doesn't say most of the things in the article. Here's my translation:
SANGHA THERAVADA INDONESIA
STATEMENT ON DHARMAKAYA TEACHINGS
Regarding the arrival of Dharmakaya teachings
in the midst of our society.
Sangha Theravada Indonesia states that it does not
in any way cooperate with Dharmakaya.
May the Triple Gem always protect.

I think it's brilliant. It avoids saying that Dk is bad or wrong, which might lead to lawsuits. It doesn't say anything at all that might provoke Dk to drag STI into legal hell. It only says that STI does not cooperate with Dk. And that's enough to send a wave throughout the Indonesian Buddhist community to take heed against the new arrival. Brilliant.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Sat May 31, 2014 8:33 am

Something I stumbled upon:
The movement, centered on Wat Thammakaai in Pathumthani province, north of Bangkok, is led by Phra Thammachayo who "describes himself in his self-styled hagiography as the Buddha reincarnate and peace messenger sent to save the world from the calamities wrought by the evil forces of late modernity" (p. 42). Although Phra Thammachayo was attacked by the highly respected theologian, PhraPrayut Payutto, for what Payutto deemed were heretical deviations from Buddhist teachings—especially for Thammachayo's advocacy of attaining ultimate salvation through a shortcut centered on the practice of the technique of visualization of the "body" of the dhamma (the meaning of Thammakaai)—the powerful backers of Thammachayo ensured that the leadership of the establishment sangha did not pursue any heresy charge. Thammachayo was, however, found to have mismanaged the huge endowments of Thammakaai and had to (at least temporarily) step down as the abbot of the main temple-monastery.

Taylor sees Thammakaai as appealing to the Thai bourgeoisie through a "consumerist interpretation" of Buddhist doctrine. "The more money donated to the monastery the better the chances of accruing direct (spiritual) merit, which will in turn produce greater (material) benefits in the present and future lives" (59). The donations have made possible the creation of Wat Thammakaai, a "fantasy place", a "simulated mirrored reality, an imaginary world of tomorrow, situated here and now" (53).

Extracted from a book review by Charles Keyes, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology and International Studies, University of Washington on Buddhism and Postmodern Imaginings in Thailand: The Religiosity of Urban Space. By James Taylor. Farnham, Surrey and Burlington, Vermont: Ashgate, 2008, vii + 244 pages, ISBN 978-0-7546-6247-1 (hardcover) £55.00. (http://www.globalbuddhism.org/10/keyes09.htm)
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Re: Sangha Theravada Indonesia Public Statement on Dhammakay

Postby plwk » Sat May 31, 2014 10:39 am

Sangha Theravada Indonesia made a public statement on Dhammakaya end of last year, shown in this news piece: [Indonesian] http://berita.bhagavant.com/2013/12/30/ ... akaya.html

English translation: http://patriasumut.or.id/news/sangha-th ... esia-doesn’t-cooperate-dhammakaya

I've seen this one. Like to clarify that STI only made a short statement, which doesn't say most of the things in the article. Here's my translation:
SANGHA THERAVADA INDONESIA
STATEMENT ON DHARMAKAYA TEACHINGS
Regarding the arrival of Dharmakaya teachings
in the midst of our society.
Sangha Theravada Indonesia states that it does not
in any way cooperate with Dharmakaya.
May the Triple Gem always protect.

I think it's brilliant. It avoids saying that Dk is bad or wrong, which might lead to lawsuits. It doesn't say anything at all that might provoke Dk to drag STI into legal hell. It only says that STI does not cooperate with Dk. And that's enough to send a wave throughout the Indonesian Buddhist community to take heed against the new arrival. Brilliant.

When this was posted by the Theravada Buddhist Council of Malaysia on their Facebook page, I left a comment for them to highlight to the Indonesian brethren on the crucial importance of correcting their spelling when highlighting on a targeted organisation or otherwise, are they referring to this or that?
Because I cannot imagine what His Eminence Dr Trungram Gyaltrul Rinpoche and his organisation has to do with all these...

And yes, in this year's State level Vesak Day celebration in Malaysia, I noticed that Dhammakaya made themselves quite visible with all of their banners which portrayed the Buddha's life with their signature Buddhist artwork and some other stuff at the lounge area...I am unsure if that row of Bhikkhus with bright orange robes facing the main stage are their people as well...
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If this single thing is recollected and made much,
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby pilgrim » Sat May 31, 2014 1:45 pm

Kumara wrote:As I've mentioned earlier, a split has occurred. According to inside info, the Dk group has divided according to personalities the members look up to: Luang Phor Sodh, Khoon Yai Chand, or Dhammajayo/Thammachayo.

Yes, there's now one of Wat Luang Phor Sodh Dhammakayaram in KL, Malaysia now. It's called Bodhi Citta. (As I don't want to increase their google ranking, I'm not including the link.) The practice is "classical Dhammakaya".

Strangely, they all tend to use traditional Mahayana terms. Years ago, I was told by Aj Sujato of their Mahayana influence. Their leaders seems mostly Chinese btw. I suppose there's a connection.


From the media reports and the comments in this thread, the criticism and controversy regarding Dhammakaya is directed at its unethical conduct, particularly regarding fund raising as well as the theological views of Dhammachaiyo and the organisation. Very little criticism has been directed at the Dhammakaya technique of meditation, which can be expected as that would be quite subjective. However, perhaps Dhammakaya Foundation overshadows the smaller sub-groups, people tend to tar them all with the same broad brush. I'm wondering if that is appropriate.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 am

pilgrim wrote:From the media reports and the comments in this thread, the criticism and controversy regarding Dhammakaya is directed at its unethical conduct, particularly regarding fund raising as well as the theological views of Dhammachaiyo and the organisation. Very little criticism has been directed at the Dhammakaya technique of meditation, which can be expected as that would be quite subjective. However, perhaps Dhammakaya Foundation overshadows the smaller sub-groups, people tend to tar them all with the same broad brush. I'm wondering if that is appropriate.

Yes, the son has overshadowed the father. But in this case the father started it. Not correct to regard them as the same though.

Going by the earlier texts, if a monk preached the "Dhammakaya technique" at the time of the Buddha, we can expect the Buddha to deal with it immediately. Then it wouldn't have proliferated.

No one in Thailand cared enough to do anything earlier. Now it's a fire difficult to control.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Jetavan » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:18 pm

People often think Dhammakaya only cares about donations or cares about getting people to the temple, but that is just an impression based on outer appearances,” says Phra Sandr, a Buddhist monk from the Netherlands. “When people come here for a while they notice that there is a very important core where people are learning to practice character.” -- PBS Religion & Ethics Newsweekly
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby gavesako » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 pm

The current military junta is cracking down on some of the most obvious mafia-type operations in Thailand, and LP Buddha Issara (controversial monk who was leading the recent protests in Bangkok) has urged them to also have a close look at the financial side of the "Dhammakaya business" which is immensely rich but, as he says, it "is not a Wat".
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Kumara » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:52 am

Jetavan wrote:People often think Dhammakaya only cares about donations or cares about getting people to the temple, but that is just an impression based on outer appearances,” says Phra Sandr, a Buddhist monk from the Netherlands. “When people come here for a while they notice that there is a very important core where people are learning to practice character.” -- PBS Religion & Ethics Newsweekly

It's interesting why people don't often think the same for most other Buddhist groups, isn't it?
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Not a Wat?

Postby Kumara » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:56 am

gavesako wrote:The current military junta is cracking down on some of the most obvious mafia-type operations in Thailand, and LP Buddha Issara (controversial monk who was leading the recent protests in Bangkok) has urged them to also have a close look at the financial side of the "Dhammakaya business" which is immensely rich but, as he says, it "is not a Wat".

Not a Wat? Sounds like something's gonna happen.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby gavesako » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:45 pm

Making money over merit
Suspicion has followed the secretive Dhammakaya temple on the outskirts of Bangkok throughout its history, but followers say it is a genuine organisation providing revelation

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... over-merit
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Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby cooran » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:11 am

I recall that the highly respected Bhikkhu Mettanando disrobed because of grave faults he found in the Dhammakaya sect:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5930&start=0

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