Wat Dhammakaya

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identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Sun May 29, 2016 3:08 am

suriyopama wrote:
identification wrote:The Dhammakaya is a Tantric Theravada group. Tantra is a path to power. They will naturally be suppressed by the government due to their power being a threat to the governments power. Power is not necessarily bad. Power can help people, if used virtuously. Lots of money = lots of power. Lots of power = lots of potential to help the world.


That obsession for power may explain why Dhammachayo is an admirer of Hitler and claims that if the Nazis would have not lost the war, today the world would be a better place to live in.

Image


You do know in Thailand a different version of Hitlers history is taught right? I've heard from a thai girl they teach the revisionist version as well as the version we would normally learn over here. In the revisionist version Hitler basically wasn't killing any jews and he was a pretty swell guy. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. But people are free to believe whatever version of history they want.

Here are some school girls in a nazi themed school parade in Chiang Mai
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mikenz66
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 29, 2016 3:26 am

From the reports it sounds like that was the sort of bad taste dressing up that Western students sometimes also do, not realising how upset it will make others, not some sort of general approval of Nazi values...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/258682/anger-over-nazi-show

:anjali:
Mike

identification
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby identification » Sun May 29, 2016 5:40 am

mikenz66 wrote:From the reports it sounds like that was the sort of bad taste dressing up that Western students sometimes also do, not realising how upset it will make others, not some sort of general approval of Nazi values...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-from-news/258682/anger-over-nazi-show

:anjali:
Mike


But the revisionist history of Nazis is that they weren't killing Jewish people. So when the Dhammakaya Abbot says he likes Hitler, or any other Thai Buddhists say they like Hitler, which Hitler do you think they are talking about? The Hollywood version of a guy that had it out for Jewish people? Or the revisionist version of Hitler where he was fighting communism and not hurting any Jewish people?

Imagine there's a man named Fred. The history of Fred has two versions. in one version he slaughters one million puppies and steals candy from babies.

In the second version he saves one million puppies, removes poverty from the country, and creates an elixir of immortality which he distributes to everyone for free.

If you believe in the second version, that doesn't mean you support killing puppies and stealing from babies. Quite the opposite aye? Maybe you love puppies! But you believe a different version of history.

When anyone in Thailand says they like Hitler they may be talking about a completely different guy, with different values, than the guy you are thinking about.

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Sun May 29, 2016 6:22 am

Media-savvy Thai monks wage PR war to defend scandal-hit abbot
May 29, 2016 10:46 am
PATHUM THANI, Thailand - An embezzlement charge against a powerful Buddhist abbot has unleashed his super-rich temple's PR machine, with Twitter-using Thai monks orchestrating his defence over a scandal that has opened a bitter rupture at the heart of the nation's faith.
"There has never been a temple of this size in Thai history," orange-robed Phra Pasura Dantamano says as he gestures towards Dhammakaya temple’s pristine, 1,000-acre compound north of Bangkok where peacocks roam the lawns and white-clad devotees meditate.

But the affable monk’s comments apply to more than the temple’s enormous, futuristic architecture -- including a building that famously resembles a gigantic UFO.

Dhammakaya is also regarded as the wealthiest in Buddhist-majority Thailand, thanks in part to tech-savvy devotees who have cultivated a fervent following, raised tens of millions of dollars and set up outposts in dozens of countries across the globe.

Phra Pasura, the monk in charge of the temple’s 60-member International Affairs Department, is part of the fine-tuned public relations operation that is now firing on all cylinders as it seeks to quash the latest scandal to dog the temple since its founding in 1970.

Dhammakaya’s modern, and some say "cultish", approach to Buddhism riles traditionalists, with critics accusing the clergy of peddling a pay-your-way to nirvana scheme.

....


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Media-savvy-Thai-monks-wage-PR-war-to-defend-scand-30286956.html

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Sun May 29, 2016 6:30 am

Operation to arrest abbot may involve 2,000 officials
PIYANUCH THAMNUKASETCHAI, ANAN WICHITPRACHA,
THE SUNDAY NATION May 29, 2016 1:00 am
More than 2,200 police and |military personnel will be used to guard the temple's 15 entrances |during an arrest operation, the source said.

The source said investigators were analysing money transac-|tions of the people who provided financial support to the temple to cover the cost of transport, meals, and around-the-clock security in order to propose impounding their assets.

The source said these people may be charged with assisting someone alleged to have committed an offence to avoid prosecution.

Justice Minister Paiboon Koomchaya revealed the DSI had established five steps leading to the abbot's arrest, though the exact date of the arrest would be determined by the authorities so as to prevent an escalation of tensions.

It would send a letter to the Sangha Council in a bid to get senior monks involved in trying to resolve the issue, Paiboon said, adding that the case report would be concluded soon and submitted to the public prosecutor to decide whether to indict the monk.

Dhammakaya Temple disciples urged the DSI to postpone the abbot's arrest pending the results of their request for the Appeals Court to revoke the May 18 arrest warrant for the abbot and having a neutral doctor examine the abbot, who the temple claims is ill.
....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Operation-to-arrest-abbot-may-involve-2000-officia-30286933.html

Obstruction of Justice is a very serious offense at some countries.

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Sun May 29, 2016 7:44 am

identification wrote:You do know in Thailand a different version of Hitlers history is taught right? I've heard from a thai girl they teach the revisionist version as well as the version we would normally learn over here. In the revisionist version Hitler basically wasn't killing any jews and he was a pretty swell guy. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. But people are free to believe whatever version of history they want.


Hitler is hip for some young Thais as it could be a Lucifer mask on Halloween. That revision of the story in Thailand is not true [better open a new thread at the lounge to talk about that], neither an excuse for the megalomaniac tastes of Dhammachayo.

Dhammachayo is not a child. He has a degree in Agricultural Economics from Katsetsart University and he is talking with knowledge of cause when he refers to WWII. His admiration for Hitler comes inspired by his predecessor.

Adolf Hitler’s the Third Reich: the dream for global expansion
Respect to the command of the leader is the core of Wat Phra Dhammakaya ethos. The control was neither coincidental, nor was it a part of Buddhism monasticism in Thailand. It was rooted in another frequently told myth of the organizational structure was always referred to the prophecy of the late abbot of Wat Paknam who, according to the Venerable Dhammajayo took Adolf Hitler and as one of his great man. According to this story of Refined Dharma, the world would have turned into an ideal place if the Nazi Germany had won the World War II. The former abbot of Wat Phra Dhammakaya has been inspired by the success of the Third Reich which has become the blueprint of for the massive ceremonies and organization of the wat.
According to Dhammajayo, the late abbot of Wat Paknam believed that Hitler was intrinsically a good person whose victory over the World War II would be good for the world, Buddhism and the Dhammakaya School of Meditation. This belief inspired him to meditate and pray for the success of the Nazis in WW II. Even after the defeat of the Nazis, Phra Mongkol-thep-muni prophesized that Dhammakaya meditation would flourish in Germany and Italy and soon the rest of the world. This is the reason behind the grandiose projects of Wat Phra Dhammakaya who sent teams of monks to start new missions in Germany and Europe.

Esoteric Teaching of Wat Phra Dhammakaya,
Dr. Mano Laohavanich

http://www.joshuajayintoh.com/uploads/2/1/6/4/21640568/mettanando_-_dhammakaya.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/DhammakayaSchwarzwald
https://www.facebook.com/dhammakayaberlin
https://www.facebook.com/watfrankfurt/
http://www.dhammakaya-schwarzwald.de
http://www.dmc.tv/pages/en/scoop/20151105-Dhammakaya-Meditation-Center-of-Bavaria.html

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun May 29, 2016 9:57 am

This thread makes me sad. How can so many people be so wrong? When the Dhamma is well taught by the Blessed One for the liberation of suffering how can some be so intent on accumulating gain, fame, and influence?

Again, how can some be constantly disparaging others, pointing out their faults, and campaigning for their downfall? If some sect, cult, or way of practice is not to your liking, then follow another method.

People are free to believe in whatever religion they want.

It is not too difficult to find the right path. Be mindful of your body, feelings, thoughts, and mental states throughout the entire day in an effort to realise their three characteristics: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not-self.

Eight Thoughts of a Great Man
  1. This Dhamma is for one who wants little, not for one who wants much (appicchassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo mahicchassa).
  2. This Dhamma is for the contented, not for the discontented (santuṭṭhassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo asantuṭṭhassa).
  3. This Dhamma is for the reclusive, not for one fond of society (pavivittassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo saṅgaṇikārāmassa).
  4. This Dhamma is for the energetic, not for the lazy (āraddhavīriyassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo kusītassa).
  5. This Dhamma is for one with well-established mindfulness, not for one of confused mindfulness (upaṭṭhitassatissāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo muṭṭhassatissa).
  6. This Dhamma is for the composed, not for the uncomposed (samāhitassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo asamāhitassa).
  7. This Dhamma is for the wise, not for the unwise (paññavato ayaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo duppaññassa).
  8. This Dhamma is for one who is free from impediments, not for one who delights in impediments (nippapañcārāmassāyaṃ dhammo nippapañcaratino, nāyaṃ dhammo papañcārāmassa papañcaratino).
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samseva
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby samseva » Sun May 29, 2016 5:06 pm

identification wrote:Do you have any evidence that the hammers won't provide the owners with supernatural powers to "trespass' the gates of heaven?

Are you serious?

identification wrote:The Dhammakaya is a Tantric Theravada group. Tantra is a path to power. They will naturally be suppressed by the government due to their power being a threat to the governments power. Power is not necessarily bad. Power can help people, if used virtuously. Lots of money = lots of power. Lots of power = lots of potential to help the world.

Those things are not what the Buddha taught. Actually, they are the exact opposite.

Tantric Buddhist teachings are still considered 'Buddhism', as "part of the vast umbrella of the religion called Buddhism, the teachings which are partly from the Buddha and some not". Howerever, they are not Buddhist as in, "the teachings of the Buddha handed down through the centuries". If it were for me and probably many more, I wouldn't consider similar practices of power and magical crafts as part of Buddhism—it goes completely against what the Buddha taught—but it seems magical thinking and superstition have made their way into the category of 'Buddhism'.

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samseva
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby samseva » Sun May 29, 2016 5:15 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Apart from that, my rather distant impression of Dhammakaya (I'm afraid I haven't summoned up the enthusiasm to visit one of their facilities) is that they are, in part, successful because of their excellent modern-looking, well, organised facilities, which seem to be in contrast to the charming, but somewhat chaotic, approach one finds in most Thai Wats.

They are very successful because the sect was tactfully structured and advertised. They have highly-competent and powerful businessmen to build their marketing and advertising. For example, and of which this is only a small part, the sect is structured in a way where followers and devotees who donate the most money rise up in this structure.

Furthermore, like we have all seen, they have very influential and highly wealthy individuals working with them, be it in political, commercial and other fields. It is far far more than their appearances.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby jameswang » Mon May 30, 2016 1:58 am

chownah wrote:Are the dhammakaya monks an incomparable field of merit?
chownah

So far, they seem like incomparable in other terms... :thinking:

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby jameswang » Mon May 30, 2016 2:03 am

samseva wrote:They are very successful because the sect was tactfully structured and advertised. They have highly-competent and powerful businessmen to build their marketing and advertising. For example, and of which this is only a small part, the sect is structured in a way where followers and devotees who donate the most money rise up in this structure.

Furthermore, like we have all seen, they have very influential and highly wealthy individuals working with them, be it in political, commercial and other fields. It is far far more than their appearances.


And boy have they reaped their investments, huh?!!!

And those benighted devotees are still hanging on to their dear religion. Sigh! I wonder how they would react when they realise that they have been really just building castles (or heavenly mansions) in the air.

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mikenz66
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 30, 2016 3:39 am

samseva wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Apart from that, my rather distant impression of Dhammakaya (I'm afraid I haven't summoned up the enthusiasm to visit one of their facilities) is that they are, in part, successful because of their excellent modern-looking, well, organised facilities, which seem to be in contrast to the charming, but somewhat chaotic, approach one finds in most Thai Wats.

They are very successful because the sect was tactfully structured and advertised. They have highly-competent and powerful businessmen to build their marketing and advertising. For example, and of which this is only a small part, the sect is structured in a way where followers and devotees who donate the most money rise up in this structure.

Furthermore, like we have all seen, they have very influential and highly wealthy individuals working with them, be it in political, commercial and other fields. It is far far more than their appearances.

Yes, of course that's part of it. But my impression is that the fact that they are well-organised, attractive, and modern is also important in getting lots of young people in the door. Young people who don't care for the old-fashioned type of Wat...

:anjali:
Mike

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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Mon May 30, 2016 5:51 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:This thread makes me sad. How can so many people be so wrong? When the Dhamma is well taught by the Blessed One for the liberation of suffering how can some be so intent on accumulating gain, fame, and influence?

Again, how can some be constantly disparaging others, pointing out their faults, and campaigning for their downfall? If some sect, cult, or way of practice is not to your liking, then follow another method.

People are free to believe in whatever religion they want.

It is not too difficult to find the right path. Be mindful of your body, feelings, thoughts, and mental states throughout the entire day in an effort to realise their three characteristics: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not-self.

Eight Thoughts of a Great Man
  1. This Dhamma is for one who wants little, not for one who wants much (appicchassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo mahicchassa).
  2. This Dhamma is for the contented, not for the discontented (santuṭṭhassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo asantuṭṭhassa).
  3. This Dhamma is for the reclusive, not for one fond of society (pavivittassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo saṅgaṇikārāmassa).
  4. This Dhamma is for the energetic, not for the lazy (āraddhavīriyassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo kusītassa).
  5. This Dhamma is for one with well-established mindfulness, not for one of confused mindfulness (upaṭṭhitassatissāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo muṭṭhassatissa).
  6. This Dhamma is for the composed, not for the uncomposed (samāhitassāyaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo asamāhitassa).
  7. This Dhamma is for the wise, not for the unwise (paññavato ayaṃ dhammo, nāyaṃ dhammo duppaññassa).
  8. This Dhamma is for one who is free from impediments, not for one who delights in impediments (nippapañcārāmassāyaṃ dhammo nippapañcaratino, nāyaṃ dhammo papañcārāmassa papañcaratino).


Thank you for the reminder of the eight thoughts, venerable
:anjali:

I don’t think that exposing the Dhammakaya shames and wrongdoings at this thread is being made with conceit, but for informative purposes. Like a Cult Warning, out of compassion.

For those who are already absorbed inside a cult it is very difficult to see the global picture, but for persons who are seeking information, perhaps because there is a new meditation center at their neighborhood, data like this may help them to investigate and consider what is more suitable for them. There is a very fine line between joining a religious movement and joining a cult.

I know a member of a Thai family whose father sold three of their four real estate properties and donated all the assets to Dhammakaya in order to gain a place for sitting at the front rows (the reservation of your seat inside the UFO depends on the amount of your donations, and the closer to the leader Dhammachayo, the more expensive). The family sadly went to bankrupt and moved apart from the alienated father.

In this age of mega-doses of information, skilled PR experts, aggressive marketing, brainwashing and thought control, it may be a good thing to build lighthouses to warn of certain dangers.

Unfortunately, lighthouses like this may not work with the new generations of Thais that have studied at the hundreds of Dhammakaya Schools that are spread all around the country. When I compared the superiority of Dhammakaya over the Church of Scientology I was not referring to the evil side of Scientology, but to the gigantic Dhammakaya machinery to fabricate new acolytes.

paultraf
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby paultraf » Mon May 30, 2016 8:34 pm

chownah wrote:Are the dhammakaya monks an incomparable field of merit?
chownah


At Wat Phra Dhammakaya there is a regular chant to the Triple Gem in the Thai Sarapanya style. With help from friends I've translated the section for the Sangha:

To any Sangha disciples who have accepted and undertaken practice  
solely with the Lord Buddha as Teacher
who are fully Enlightened in the Four Noble Truths, having attained the path in each stage -
the path that restrains and extinguishes whatever risks suffering.
Who nobly follow the threefold illuminating wisdom of the Buddha.
Who are clean and absorbed in getting rid of sadness.
Who seek to go far away from the path of the enemy; they conduct themselves without false pride
in body, speech and mind.
Who are at the heart of a vast field of merit for the world.
And that abundant merit grows and heaps up good fruit.
They are the ones designated as children of the Buddha – they are anointed with virtue,
so many, they cannot be counted.
I humbly bow and pay respects to the Sangha
whose every virtue is greater than words can say.
May the power of merits of the Triple Gem that are
abundant and prospering, full of excellence and most splendid,
help me to get rid of the array of dangers, each and every one of them –
may they be erased and disappear.

(from: ‘A Buddha Prayer Song translated’
http://paultrafford.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/a-buddha-prayer-song-translated.html)

Insofar as anyone undertakes practice as described, then followers at the Wat will regard them as an incomparable field of merit. The path (magga) that the Buddha taught is the Middle Way, which is the practice that monastics and lay followers undertake. Their attainments and paramis vary considerably; among Dhammakaya practitioners three are regarded as having very high attainments: Luang Pu Wat Paknam (Sodh Candasaro) [Chao Khun Phramongkolthepmuni], Khun Yay Ajahn Maharattana Upasika Chandra Khonnokyoong, and Luang Phor Dhammajayo [Phrathepyanmahamuni].
http://en.dhammakaya.net/about/the-dhammakaya-masters/


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