Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Ben » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:49 pm

bodom wrote:
Ben wrote:I was just interested in the provenance of the article and the circumstances of its origin.


This is actually the foreword written by the DL for the 1999 first edition Pariyatti copy of the Vism. I double checked and it is in my copy.

:anjali:


Hi Bodom
I suspected it was a forward but its certainly not present in my earlier edition.
Thanks for checking it out!
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby cooran » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:15 pm

Hello Sonam,

Just wanted you to know that views expressed in this thread are the opinions of the writer of each post, not of all members of Dhamma Wheel or of very many Theravadins.

I have deep respect for the Dalai Lama, and have attended two Retreats with him when we have been fortunate enough for him to visit Australia.

with metta
Chris
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:30 pm

cooran wrote:Hello Sonam,

Just wanted you to know that views expressed in this thread are the opinions of the writer of each post, not of all members of Dhamma Wheel or of very many Theravadins.

I have deep respect for the Dalai Lama, and have attended two Retreats with him when we have been fortunate enough for him to visit Australia.

with metta
Chris
I do not think anyone in this thread has stated a lack of respect for the Dalai Lama.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:33 pm

PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".

What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:36 pm

Virgo wrote:
PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".

What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin

I think you might mean this msg by Alan: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3977&p=58703#p58703
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:39 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:
PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".

What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin

I think you might mean this msg by Alan: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3977&p=58703#p58703

That is the statement I had meant to address. Thank you Tilt.

Alan wrote: "I'm going to admit right here that Visuddhimagga baffles me."

What is it that baffles you about the visuddhimagga, Alan?

Kevin

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:12 pm

I would venture to say the visuddhimagga is a little intimidating and baffling to most at first. I know it was for me when I first picked it up. It is basically the entire tipitaka condensed between two covers. There is alot to take in and digest.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:57 am

i started to read it on a retreat two years ago, i never got to the meditation part... :embarassed:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:34 am

Hi jc
jcsuperstar wrote:i started to read it on a retreat two years ago, i never got to the meditation part... :embarassed:

I started re-reading it again in preparation for my last retreat in December last year. Particularly the section on anapana-sati (in concentration) but also some of the chapters in the wisdom section. Reading the anapana section over and over again over a number of years has been an invaluable aid to my practice.
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:16 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Sönam wrote:hello tiltbillings, ... if vajrayana teachings are so "ignorant" why to be so irritated ?

may you found happiness and appeasement !
I understand that English is not your primary language. I did not say Vajrayana teachings are ignorant. I said that Wallace's approach was grossly sectarian, essentially claiming that the Theravada, especially the vipassana tradition, did not get it right and that the vipassana tradition distorts the Dhamma.

While there is sufficient reason to criticise the Vajrayana, I did not do so; I criticized Wallace's sectarianism, which seriously distorts what he is supposedly criticizing.


ok, so I apologize for not being "immediate" with english !

Sönam
no hope ... no fear

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:44 am

Sönam wrote:
ok, so I apologize for not being "immediate" with english !
That is nothing you need to apologize for. My only point is that it sometime easy to misunderstand what is being said.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:34 pm

Veering slightly off the immediate topic ... which translation of the Vsm do you folks like?
Thanks,

Kim

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Ben » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:43 am

Hi Kim
I think you will find most people will have the Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli translation published either by BPS or Pariyatti.
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby BlackBird » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 am

Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli was a gentleman and a scholar. ;)
Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:27 am

As Ben says, the Nanamoli translation from BPS is probably the realistic choice.
http://www.bps.lk/
Aparrently they are working on a re-typesetting, which will also result in a free PDF. See the post here by Bhikkhu Nyanatusita:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... =20#p32156

As far as I know, the only other option in English is the ancient PTS translation:
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm

The Path of Purity,
tr. Pe Maung Tin, 3 volumes, 1923, 1929, 1931, reprinted as one
volume 1975
ISBN 008 8 £45.30 « Add to Basket »
One of the most influential Pāli texts, this compendium of Buddhist doctrine and metaphysics is the most important book written by Buddhaghosa. It provides a systematic exposition of Buddhist teaching and is also a detailed manual for meditation. (5th century C.E.)
Translation of Visuddhimagga.

Metta
Mike

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Ben » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:33 am

BlackBird wrote:Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli was a gentleman and a scholar. ;)


Indeed! As was Bhadantacariya Buddhaghosa.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:35 am

Thanks, folks.
I'll put it on my wish list. :smile:

Kim

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby BlackBird » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:38 am

Ben wrote:
BlackBird wrote:Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli was a gentleman and a scholar. ;)


Indeed! As was Bhadantacariya Buddhaghosa.


Very true, we're a fortunate lot to have met all this. I think we might just owe a good deal of gratitude to these Bhantes.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby Virgo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:10 pm

bodom wrote:I would venture to say the visuddhimagga is a little intimidating and baffling to most at first. I know it was for me when I first picked it up. It is basically the entire tipitaka condensed between two covers. There is alot to take in and digest.

:anjali:

It's not as bad as it looks. any big book can be intimidating. But it is well worth the read.

Kevin

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Postby d.sullivan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:33 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Here is Wallace's broadside against vipassana practice: http://www.tricycle.com/a-mindful-balance

I am not impressed.


I want to discuss this article further, but don't want to go off topic. So, I'm starting a new thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4623
Every blade in the field,
Every leaf in the forest,
Lays down its life in its season,
As beautifully as it was taken up.

Thoreau.


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