Alan Wallace on Modern Vipassana

[fijiNut]

I was wondering why nobody brought this up this direct contradiction:

from the interview http://www.tricycle.com/a-mindful-balance

Q: Does the Buddha ever mention the term manasikara in his mindfulness instructions?

A:Not that I know of. The term figures most prominently in Abhidhamma-based treatises on Buddhist psychology. In the Buddha’s practical instructions on both samatha (tranquility meditation) and vipassana (insight meditation), the terms sati and sampajanna appear most often.

And from the words of the Buddha's "How appropriate attention (yoniso manasikara) leads to stream entry:" SN 22.122
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html#stream

[Ben]

I was wondering why nobody brought this up this direct contradiction:

from the interview http://www.tricycle.com/a-mindful-balance

Q: Does the Buddha ever mention the term manasikara in his mindfulness instructions?

A:Not that I know of. The term figures most prominently in Abhidhamma-based treatises on Buddhist psychology. In the Buddha’s practical instructions on both samatha (tranquility meditation) and vipassana (insight meditation), the terms sati and sampajanna appear most often.

And from the words of the Buddha's "How appropriate attention (yoniso manasikara) leads to stream entry:" SN 22.122
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html#stream

That doesn't surprise me, FijiNut, thanks for bringing it up.
kind regards

Ben

[porpoise]

Thus the Buddha advised right mindfulness is awareness or contemplation of the four satipatthana rather than the four Spice Girls.

The Spice Girls are in fact the esoteric fifth foundation of mindfulness

[tiltbillings]

I was wondering why nobody brought this up this direct contradiction:

from the interview http://www.tricycle.com/a-mindful-balance

Q: Does the Buddha ever mention the term manasikara in his mindfulness instructions?

A:Not that I know of. The term figures most prominently in Abhidhamma-based treatises on Buddhist psychology. In the Buddha’s practical instructions on both samatha (tranquility meditation) and vipassana (insight meditation), the terms sati and sampajanna appear most often.

And from the words of the Buddha's "How appropriate attention (yoniso manasikara) leads to stream entry:" SN 22.122
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html#stream

Wallace leaves something to be desired.

[alan]

Nice, fijiNut. But was the sutta you posted referring to mindfulness instructions?

[tiltbillings]

Nice, fijiNut. But was the sutta you posted referring to mindfulness instructions?

Are you going to suggest that SN 22.122 doesn't?

[alan]

Not being virtuous myself, I'll have to leave that up to you.
Are these basic instructions about mindfulness?

[tiltbillings]

Nice, fijiNut. But was the sutta you posted referring to mindfulness instructions?

Since it needs to be spelled out to you in obvious black and white:

There are things that are the basis for the enlightenment factor of mindfulness: frequently giving careful attention [yoiniso manasikara] to them is the nutrient for the arising of the unarisen enlightenment factor of mindfulness and for the fulfillment by development of the arisen enlightenment factor of mindfulness. - SN V 65 CDB 1569.

[alan]

Thanks tilt.
So the sutta fijiNut quoted: did it refer to basic mindfulness instructions?
The sutta you quoted: is it in that context?
Thanks for pointing things out in black and white. I do appreciate that.

[tiltbillings]

Thanks tilt.
So the sutta fijiNut quoted: did it refer to basic mindfulness instructions?

The whole thing is there to be read.

The sutta you quoted: is it in that context?

It would seem so.


Interesting to see you working to keep this thread alive.

[alan]

Hi tilt,
I'm only working to understand.
Lock the thread now if it does not please you. You have that option.

[tiltbillings]

Hi tilt,
I'm only working to understand.
Lock the thread now if it does not please you. You have that option.

Whether it pleases me or not has nothing to do with anything. Keep in on point, please.

[alan]

Sure.
Just asking about the sutta you quoted. Context would be nice.
"It would seem so" might make sense to some, but please forgive my ignorance. I'm just learning. And you are the big expert. So for all of those reading who are still learning, would you please explain?
Thanks.

[tiltbillings]

Sure.
Just asking about the sutta you quoted. Context would be nice.
"It would seem so" might make sense to some, but please forgive my ignorance. I'm just learning. And you are the big expert. So for all of those reading who are still learning, would you please explain?
Thanks.

The question is do I want to type out the text in detail? No. Other things to do, and it will not change the point that yoniso manasikara is used in context of helping establish mindfulness practice. If you have Ven Bodhi's translation, it is referenced easily enough for you. Right now I have some irregular verbs to learn.

[Brizzy]

Interesting point about the sutta mentioned................

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html

........is that it states that this practice leads to jhana.

[tiltbillings]

Interesting point about the sutta mentioned................

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html

........is that it states that this practice leads to jhana.

Oh, no; how terrible.

[Journey]

A Correspondence between B. Alan Wallace and the Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi -
"The Nature of Mindfulness and Its Role in Buddhist Meditation"


http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files/article/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Correspondence.pdf

[tiltbillings]

A Correspondence between B. Alan Wallace and the Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi -
"The Nature of Mindfulness and Its Role in Buddhist Meditation"


http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files/article/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Correspondence.pdf

Thanks. That is worth looking at.

[Journey]

A Correspondence between B. Alan Wallace and the Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi -
"The Nature of Mindfulness and Its Role in Buddhist Meditation"


http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files/article/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Correspondence.pdf

Thanks. That is worth looking at.

Sure is.

[mikenz66]

Hi Journey,

A Correspondence between B. Alan Wallace and the Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi -
"The Nature of Mindfulness and Its Role in Buddhist Meditation"


http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files/article/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Correspondence.pdf

Thank you for posting that. It is very illuminating.

Best Wishes,
Mike