tiltbillings wrote:What do you mean by form?
With regards to eye, it would be the discerned image.
With regards to ear, it would be the discerned sound.
With regards to body, it would be the discerned tactile sensation. etc.
tiltbillings wrote:And how does this taking rupa as form short circuit "atomic realism." And please define what you mean by "atomic realism," because I have no idea what you mean by it.
Realism relates to that which is said to (capital E) "Exist".
Atomic relates to the property of representing the smallest unit of indivisibility (e.g. kalapas).
Together, it is to say that tiny indivisible dhammas "Exist", and in the context of dissolution, that they alternate between "do not Exist", "Exist" and "do not Exist" in the smallest possible unitary duration of indivisible time (i.e. a "moment"). It is the classic commentarial Abhidhammic view of both cittas and matter (though it pronounces a different durational timeframe for each).
Taking rupa as "form" however, is to rightly discern it as a formation/sankhara, dependent upon avijja for its presence, and recognising that it arises in accordance with dependent origination, there will neither be the perception of "Exist" or "does not Exist". The same cannot be said for so-called objective physical matter, which is not understood as being dependent upon avijja for its presence, which cannot be known independently of the six-senses, and which is therefore not within loka or sabba.
tiltbillings wrote:We can only directly know phenomena within this ‘world of experience," and objective outside "reality" is not what is being talked about.
If someone is implicitly or explicitly adhering to the view of atomic realism, then "objective outside reality" (as well as "objective inside reality", for what it's worth) is precisely what they would be talking about...
Bhikkhu Bodhi, ACMA, p188 wrote:The compendium of process-freed consciousness opens with a survey of the topography of the phenomenal world, charting the planes of existence and the various realms within each plane. (See Table 5.1). The author undertakes this survey before examining the types of process-freed consciousness because the external universe, according to the Abhidhamma, is an outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind, registering in concrete manifest form the subtle gradations in states of consciousness. This does not mean that the Abhidhamma reduces the outer world to a dimension of mind in the manner of philosophical idealism. The outer world is quite real and possesses objective existence. The outer world is always a world apprehended by consciousness, and the type of consciousness determines the nature of the world that appears. Consciousness and the world are mutually dependent and inextriably connected to such an extent that the hierarchical structure of the realms of existence exactly reproduces and corresponds to the hierarchical structure of consciousness.
Because of this correspondence, each of the two, the objective hierarchy of existence and the inner gradation of consciousness, provides the key to understanding the other. The reason why a living being is reborn into a particular realm is because he has generated, in a previous life, the kamma or volitional force of consciousness that leads to the rebirth into that realm, and thus the final analysis all the realms of activity of existence are formed, fashioned, and sustained by the mental activity of living beings. At the same time these realms provide the stage for consciousness to continue its evolution in a new personality and under a fresh set of circumstances
Hence the benefit in consciously avoiding and side-stepping views which pertain to the existence and non-existence of dhammas, moments, cittas, kalapas, anything etc.
Meditation instructions however, which are based upon commentarial terminology, are inextricably intertwined with the consequences and implications that underpin that commentarial terminology, which is fine if the commentaries are entirely free of error and/or irrelevance.