If one attends to the recognition of the thought for its entire duration one can inferentially know that it underwent alteration and change (aññathatta & vipariṇāma) during this duration, and then ceased. This duration is relative to the attention given to the object of consciousness, in this case a thought, and is therefore not restricted to any fixed momentary limit.tiltbillings wrote:]For example: a thought comes into "being" then ends.
Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
There is no "complaint." One either accepts or at least acquiesces to the view of discrete momentary dhammas or one doesn't. If one doesn't, then the insight stage of knowing the incessant dissolution of discrete momentary dhammas lacks meaning and coherence. It would be like trying to discern the incessant dissolution of unicorns.tiltbillings wrote:If that is the case, then your complaint (for that is the subtext here) is?
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
And if one "acquiesces" and experiences incessant dissolution of discrete momentary dhammas?Ñāṇa wrote:There is no "complaint." One either accepts or at least acquiesces to the view of discrete momentary dhammas or one doesn't. If one doesn't, then the insight stage of knowing the incessant dissolution of discrete momentary dhammas lacks meaning and coherence. It would be like trying to discern the incessant dissolution of unicorns.tiltbillings wrote:If that is the case, then your complaint (for that is the subtext here) is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
People claim to experience all sorts of things. Just because someone claims to experience something doesn't mean that their claim is valid. They could very well be basing their claim on incorrect inferences and all sorts of cognitive biases.tiltbillings wrote:And if one "acquiesces" and experiences incessant dissolution of discrete momentary dhammas?
For example, there was a time when I uncritically acquiesced to the view of radical momentariness and indeed experienced what I took to be the direct perception of incessant dissolution. Later, I came to understand that this was an inaccurate interpretation of what I was experiencing and I had no alternative but to abandon that view.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
And why should we take you as being an arbiter of these things?Ñāṇa wrote:People claim to experience all sorts of things. Just because someone claims to experience something doesn't mean that their claim is valid. They could very well be basing their claim on incorrect inferences and all sorts of cognitive biases.tiltbillings wrote:And if one "acquiesces" and experiences incessant dissolution of discrete momentary dhammas?
For example, there was a time when I uncritically acquiesced to the view of radical momentariness and indeed experienced what I took to be the direct perception of incessant dissolution. Later, I came to understand that this was an inaccurate interpretation of what I was experiencing and I had no alternative but to abandon that view.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
When have I ever said that you should take me as the arbiter of these things???tiltbillings wrote:And why should we take you as being an arbiter of these things?
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
You are pretty much presenting yourself as such with your rather rigid take on all this business.Ñāṇa wrote:When have I ever said that you should take me as the arbiter of these things???tiltbillings wrote:And why should we take you as being an arbiter of these things?
So, all the guys you quoted in the OP are simply and completely wrong and quite deluded, if we are to believe you.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
Nonsense. Believe whatever you want. But there are no sacred cows in Buddhism, and everything is open to critical investigation.tiltbillings wrote:You are pretty much presenting yourself as such with your rather rigid take on all this business.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
The real question is: what were you experiencing?Ñāṇa wrote:[ I came to understand that this was an inaccurate interpretation of what I was experiencing and I had no alternative but to abandon that view.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
BTW, this defender of the faith role you've taken on is hypocritical. You've been vehemently critical of all sorts of things in your 11629 posts here on DW.tiltbillings wrote:And why should we take you as being an arbiter of these things? You are pretty much presenting yourself as such with your rather rigid take on all this business.
Why should you care? The real question for you is: What are you experiencing?tiltbillings wrote:The real question is: what were you experiencing?
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
And I am highly critical of your highly corrosive attack on Burmese vipassana. But let me ask you again, all the guys quoted in the OP are clearly wrong and deluded according to you?Ñāṇa wrote:BTW, this defender of the faith role you've taken on is hypocritical. You've been vehemently critical of all sorts of things in your 11629 posts here on DW.tiltbillings wrote:And why should we take you as being an arbiter of these things? You are pretty much presenting yourself as such with your rather rigid take on all this business.
You are the one who made a direct reference to your own experience and you stated that it was not what you at first thought, so what was it that you experienced? It would help me and anyone who be following this thread to understand your position and maybe it can throw some light on why you are are so insistent in your attack on Burmese vipassana.Why should you care?tiltbillings wrote:The real question is: what were you experiencing?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
Of course, including your overly rigid insistence upon things being understood in a particular way.Ñāṇa wrote:Nonsense. Believe whatever you want. But there are no sacred cows in Buddhism, and everything is open to critical investigation.tiltbillings wrote:You are pretty much presenting yourself as such with your rather rigid take on all this business.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
When did Burmese Vipassanā become sacrosanct? You first accused me of being unfair in not accurately representing the teachings of Burmese Vipassanā, so I present the views of 5 major teachers who teach this system without comment or criticism and you call it a "highly corrosive attack." Your defender of the faith role is hypocritical man, too funny.tiltbillings wrote:And I am highly critical of your highly corrosive attack on Burmese vipassana.
It looks like you want to make this all about me. It's not. It never was. Now it seems that you want to try to bully me into silence with these inflamed accusations.tiltbillings wrote:maybe it can throw some light on why you are are so insistent in your attack on Burmese vipassana.
"Overly rigid"? It isn't "overly rigid" to subscribe to teachings which are meaningful and coherent. You may think it is, but it isn't.tiltbillings wrote:Of course, including your overly rigid insistence upon things being understood in a particular way.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
A gift not accepted.Ñāṇa wrote:When did Burmese Vipassanā become sacrosanct? You first accused me of being unfair in not accurately representing the teachings of Burmese Vipassanā, so I present the views of 5 major teachers who teach this system without comment or criticism and you call it a "highly corrosive attack." Your defender of the faith role is hypocritical man, too funny.tiltbillings wrote:And I am highly critical of your highly corrosive attack on Burmese vipassana.
Asking you to explain something you said is not bullying. It is simply asking you to explain something you said. Actually, it is a rather interesting and possiibly important bit that is worth a look.It looks like you want to make this all about me. It's not. It never was. Now it seems that you want to try to bully me into silence with these inflamed accusations.tiltbillings wrote:maybe it can throw some light on why you are are so insistent in your attack on Burmese vipassana.
As to what is meaningful, it depends."Overly rigid"? It isn't "overly rigid" to subscribe to teachings which are meaningful and coherent. You may think it is, but it isn't.tiltbillings wrote:Of course, including your overly rigid insistence upon things being understood in a particular way.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Vipassanā: What Is Dissolution, Really?
These repeated accusations on your part that I'm misrepresenting these teachers and initiating a "highly corrosive attack on Burmese vipassana" seem very much to be attempts to try to impeach my character and/or shut me up. We should be able to have discussions about dhamma here on DW without leveling such unfounded, inflammatory accusations.tiltbillings wrote:Asking you to explain something you said is not bullying.
Personal experiences are quite irrelevant to this sub-forum and this thread. I only mentioned that as one example. It isn't a case study.tiltbillings wrote:It is simply asking you to explain something you said. Actually, it is a rather interesting and possiibly important bit that is worth a look.