Porn Free for 90 Days

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Enlightenment0106
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

tiltbillings wrote:
twelph wrote: I'm at about ten days now, as I had started a few days before I posted to this thread. Something else bothering me, is that in making this goal I feel like I have become aware of the strong aversion I have to my desire for porn. It's hard shifting my thoughts from the aversion to my porn habits, to being able to see the benefits and joy of renunciation. Going to keep at it.
Seeing the aversion is good thing. Just take it easy. Be kind with yourself. Outside of becoming ariya, you are not going to get rid of sexual feelings. The question becomes what do you do with them, what kind of relationship will you have with them. Even though sexual feelings are naught more than a natural part of being a biological being, you can make them an enemy and hate yourself for having them and all the confliction that goes with that.
True that. Hating and blaming yourself would make matters worse, and it will cause other problems like stress , low self-esteem and so on
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
uvm49erfan
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by uvm49erfan »

Thanks for the post. I would consider myself an addict of porn and this site may be enough to get me started in a new direction. I have been wanting to for years, but haven't found the right approach to.
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

Or you could just...not indulge!

Manas, I think you might be putting the cart in front of the horse. Sense restraint, observation of sila and the development of samadhi leads to jhana. Not the other way round. And attaining jhana is no guarantee that one will not indulge in sense pleasures again. When one is in jhana, the hindrances are subdued not permanently eradicated.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

Ben wrote: When one is in jhana, the hindrances are subdued not permanently eradicated.
They can be rather profoundly subdued, as even can be the associated sense of self.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

Ben wrote:Or you could just...not indulge!

Manas, I think you might be putting the cart in front of the horse. Sense restraint, observation of sila and the development of samadhi leads to jhana. Not the other way round. And attaining jhana is no guarantee that one will not indulge in sense pleasures again. When one is in jhana, the hindrances are subdued not permanently eradicated.
kind regards,

Ben
Hi Ben,

I agree that sense-restraint is always good, no matter where we are at! But I also think it would liberate alot of energy to no longer have to 'battle' sex desire, so that one could give more energy to eradicating other, more subtle defilements. And the impression I got from that sutta (which sadly I cannot as yet re-find) was that the Buddha was kind of recommending we all practice jhana. But I am certainly not saying that the road there is easy - because as I suspect you were implying, I hear it takes much effort and renunciation to actually get there in the first place! But even so, I do look forward to not 'itching' anymore. It will be a relief. I'm getting sick of the tyranny of sex desire. I would welcome being free of it, yes even just by 'wholesome suppression'.

:anjali:
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

manas wrote:the Buddha was kind of recommending we all practice jhana.
Yes he did. Jhana has a number of meanings, one is meditative absorption, it was also sometimes used as term for mental cultivation.
manas wrote:I hear it takes much effort and renunciation to actually get there in the first place!
Yes, that is correct.
manas wrote:But even so, I do look forward to not 'itching' anymore.
You may wish to investigate insight exercises that will assist with the eradication of all defilements, including lust. Vipassana has as its support samadhi, and the support for samadhi is sila.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

Ben wrote:
manas wrote:the Buddha was kind of recommending we all practice jhana.
Yes he did. Jhana has a number of meanings, one is meditative absorption, it was also sometimes used as term for mental cultivation.
manas wrote:I hear it takes much effort and renunciation to actually get there in the first place!
Yes, that is correct.
manas wrote:But even so, I do look forward to not 'itching' anymore.
You may wish to investigate insight exercises that will assist with the eradication of all defilements, including lust. Vipassana has as its support samadhi, and the support for samadhi is sila.
kind regards,

Ben
Hi Ben,

I appreciate your kind advice. Actually I posted that info re jhana and the diminishment of sex desire for the potential benefit of others; because, I am finding that working on the cultivation of jhana as per the instructions of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, really is reducing the affliction of sexual lust, gradually. If I attain jhana proper, and if it does indeed give complete (albeit temporary) relief from any temptation to indulge at all, I will let this topic know. But I also wish to add that (our practice) might not be so far apart as some might think, because in the type of samadhi cultivation I am undertaking, insight goes hand-in-hand with calm, they are not two separate things. If we are both trying to make the mind calm so that we can see clearly, are we really so different?

with metta

manas :anjali:
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

manas wrote:Actually I posted that info re jhana and the diminishment of sex desire for the potential benefit of others; because, I am finding that working on the cultivation of jhana as per the instructions of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, really is reducing the affliction of sexual lust, gradually...

...But I also wish to add that (our practice) might not be so far apart as some might think, because in the type of samadhi cultivation I am undertaking, insight goes hand-in-hand with calm, they are not two separate things. If we are both trying to make the mind calm so that we can see clearly, are we really so different?
I am glad you are finding that.
Jhana can be separated from Vipassana and is taught as a separate practice under some teachers. But they should go hand in hand. Within my own tradition there is a very close alignment of both samadhi and vipassana-bhavana.
Be careful with Jhana - it can be extraordinarily seductive. And be careful you don't replace craving and relishing one type of sensual pleasure for another.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

Ben wrote:
manas wrote:Actually I posted that info re jhana and the diminishment of sex desire for the potential benefit of others; because, I am finding that working on the cultivation of jhana as per the instructions of Thanissaro Bhikkhu, really is reducing the affliction of sexual lust, gradually...

...But I also wish to add that (our practice) might not be so far apart as some might think, because in the type of samadhi cultivation I am undertaking, insight goes hand-in-hand with calm, they are not two separate things. If we are both trying to make the mind calm so that we can see clearly, are we really so different?
I am glad you are finding that.
Jhana can be separated from Vipassana and is taught as a separate practice under some teachers. But they should go hand in hand. Within my own tradition there is a very close alignment of both samadhi and vipassana-bhavana.
Be careful with Jhana - it can be extraordinarily seductive. And be careful you don't replace craving and relishing one type of sensual pleasure for another.
kind regards

Ben
Hi Ben,

I thank you for your concern Ben, but 'seductive' isn't the right word afaics. The only way 'in' to jhana is renunciation, as you know, and really, I have never heard the jhanas described as 'seductive' anywhere in the suttas...maybe that idea stems from the fact that some persons don't practice it in the correct way, that is, they go in to jhana without being properly committed to the rest of the Path also, and thus it is at the risk of being 'wrong concentration'...? But if we are sufficiently endowed with right view, and virtue, and the other Path factors, I think it is 'safe' to venture in to jhana.

with metta. :anjali:
Last edited by manas on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dhammapal
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

Day 114. But I'll keep going.

Some ideas that have helped me overcome pornography addiction:
- donating to the Rape Crisis Center. This is my number one tip.
- Post to this thread. I actually had a dream at night once where I wanted to find porn then remembered this thread in the dream!
- use medical terminology for parts of the anatomy e.g. mammary glands
- occasional masturbation without porn (Days 9, 24, 36, 38, 86, 106) isn't the same addiction although there is the urge to seek out porn when trying to do it. Abstain on Uposatha Days one day a week (full moon, new moon, half moon).
- memorize this Ajahn Brahm quote: "...the things that come out of this body!" I keep a bowel diary and visualize how the body derives nourishment through the intestines.
- overcome the delusion that the women are smiling at you and not just at the photographer (without looking at photos!)
- set Google SafeSearch to Strict. You can Password Lock it too. Anything to create an impediment to casual whims.
- Burn your bridges: make it more difficult to access satisfying porn e.g. delete favorite photos from your hard drive and backups.
- I think a sense of humor is important. A female moderator on a sexuality forum explained that not all women will have strong PC muscles which has successfully reduced my visual and auditory based lust for my neighbor's wife!

I'd be happy to discuss any questions anyone might have.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

dhammapal wrote:Day 114. But I'll keep going.
Well done!
with metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

Good work, dhammapal.

*This is a cross post from the "Pornography" thread*

I have been quite honest about my struggles with this in the past. I have had some real good results as of late and I’d like to share them. For the record, I am not trying to be celibate or even quit masturbating (at least not at this time), I just do not want to use porn, especially on the internet; its endless which is why it is so dangerous and I feel it is a waste of my energy.

I have reduced my usage a lot in the past 2 years with minimal backlash. It has be slow but steady. I’ve been analyzing the entire process in order to understand it, and the most important thing I have begun to discover is the deeper meaning of the shame that I experience after I use. Initially I only understood it as guilt for not being to resist and succumbing to the urges, but I soon realized there was much more to it than that. It is a stern reminder of how ordinary I am and that I am not as developed as I want to be. One day I feel like a solid practitioner who is at a certain level and then the next I fall into a trap that humbles me. Worse off, it is a trap that I have fallen into thousands of times. Perhaps this was so blatantly obvious that I failed to pay much attention to it in the past. I have begun recalling this when I start to get the urges. I focus on my goal which is the reorientation that Dan brought up. I say to myself, “Hey! If you really want to progress in the dhamma then this (porn usage) has to stop. You can give in, but you know how you will feel afterwards. Is the pleasure worth it?”

This may not be the case for everyone, but I am saving no space for a porn habit. Maybe some people can do it and still have a strong practice. Not me. It is a full on surrendering of control and attentiveness that goes against everything I am trying to accomplish. Once again, I am not looking to be rid of sex and masturbation, but porn has to go.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by uvm49erfan »

manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
The Buddha has also been quoted as saying that if there was another attachment as strong as lust, or sexual pleasure, one would never be able to achieve enlightenment. Essentially saying that lust, love, sexual desire and so on are the hardest human conditions to overcome.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

uvm49erfan wrote:
manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
The Buddha has also been quoted as saying that if there was another attachment as strong as lust, or sexual pleasure, one would never be able to achieve enlightenment. Essentially saying that lust, love, sexual desire and so on are the hardest human conditions to overcome.
Yeah, also there are suggestions that stream-enterer and one-returner still have sexual desire. Only no returner and arahant overcome it.

Also there is a story in Jakata in previous life when Bodhisattva attained jhana and superpower and then a princess was sent to him. When saw the girl he immediately lose all of his ability, then he was ready to make killing to achive that girl. Luckily at last he awake from that.

From my experience, manytimes when I have joy and happy with my practice, I really saw sexual desire as empty and meaningless compare to that happiness of giving up. But then it comes back, like in a dream, you become a totally diffrent person.
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