Porn Free for 90 Days

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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reflection
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by reflection »

tiltbillings wrote:
dhammapal wrote: . . . Looking at porn starts with curiosity . . . .
It is worth mentioning one last time: it is not the pornography that is the problem.
I agree that pornography doesn't have to be the source of all problems. It's a bit over simplified to think so. But it may also be over simplified to say it is not an indirect cause of other problems at all. I personally have zero guilt feelings, no distorted way of seeing women, no depression-like moods, no social axiety or anything. But I can imagine how these things might arise as a result of over indulging in such things as pornography.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

reflection wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
dhammapal wrote: . . . Looking at porn starts with curiosity . . . .
It is worth mentioning one last time: it is not the pornography that is the problem.
I agree that pornography doesn't have to be the source of all problems. It's a bit over simplified to think so. But it may also be over simplified to say it is not an indirect cause of other problems at all. I personally have zero guilt feelings, no distorted way of seeing women, no depression-like moods, no social axiety or anything. But I can imagine how these things might arise as a result of over indulging in such things as pornography.
No one here has yet to say that porn held a gun to their head, demanding that they look at porn. Porn may be a contributing factor, but it is not a cause. The cause resides in the choices we make; often small choices driven by feelings. It is a matter of learning to pay attention to these feeling and to these small choices that we make in response them that can rise to the big, difficult choices where we have to struggle with what t do, where we blame ourselves for our perceived failures. It is a matter of learning how step back from a situation, be it small or big, to put some space -- awareness -- around it, and it a matter of learning to be kind to ourselves when we fail, not beat ourselves up because we did not live up to an overly rigid ideal of how we should act. An honest, pleasurable self-pleasuring is far less a problem than is the negative round of self-condemnation that follows an unrealistic goal.

Quite honestly we need to learn to be comfortable with our sexuasl feelings even though they may be extremely uncomfortable at times.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

dhamma_newb wrote:Hi all,

I came across this website called http://yourbrainonporn.com/ and realized I wanted to cut out all fantasy, porn, masturbation, and orgasm for 90 days and see what would happen in my life. I know this will be quite a challenge so hopefully posting this here will help me to succeed. Thank you.

With Metta,
Don
Hi Don (I must have missed this topic earlier, just saw it)
I recalled this when I read your post:
"And what is right resolve? Aspiring to renunciation, to freedom from ill will, to harmlessness: This is called right resolve.
I think there are plenty of men who live alone, have no girlfriend, but do have an Internet connection at home, who will appreciate what a wholesome aspiration that is - sādhu!

I would advise not to get disheartened if it takes a while to make it to 90 days straight, though. There might be a few slip-ups on the royal road to abstinence. I think we need to be able to 'pick ourselves up, shake off the dust and get back into the saddle' if we do fall off the wagon sometimes. It's important not to get too much into judgement, as this can actually make matters worse.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

tiltbillings wrote:Quite honestly we need to learn to be comfortable with our sexual feelings even though they may be extremely uncomfortable at times.
I am not sure what you mean, tilt. Learn to be comfortable by giving in to those feelings in some way? Through action or thought?

I am not sure if you are suggesting a "learn-to-deal-with-it-because-it-isn't-ever-going-to-go-away" mentality.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

I just recalled my longest ever stint at brahmacariya - about 6 (or was it 9?) months straight without (knowingly) passing a drop of seed, not even in dreams. It was before I had come to the (Buddha) Dhamma, when I was still investigating other paths, so I had to do it without asubha contemplation, so i'm kind of amazed now, looking back. I was living in a Hindu-styled ashram, with other brahmacaris. And therein lies the answer - I was living in a community with other men who were all doing the same practice (ie, involving complete abstinence). That was the 'secret'. So I just thought, one easy way to get one's brain off the dopamine would be to just take a few months off, and live in a monastery willing to let one stay for a period of time. You could offer to help out, clean etc. Just an idea, obviously not available if you have kids, responsibilites etc.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

SDC wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Quite honestly we need to learn to be comfortable with our sexual feelings even though they may be extremely uncomfortable at times.
I am not sure what you mean, tilt. Learn to be comfortable by giving in to those feelings in some way? Through action or thought?
Did I say give into those feeling? Nope. You can have "uncomfortable" feelings without giving into them; you can have "uncomfortable" feeling without being distressed by them.
I am not sure if you are suggesting a "learn-to-deal-with-it-because-it-isn't-ever-going-to-go-away" mentality.
For the most part, while you are alive, there are going to be sexual feelings. What are you going to do with them?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

tiltbillings wrote:
SDC wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Quite honestly we need to learn to be comfortable with our sexual feelings even though they may be extremely uncomfortable at times.
I am not sure what you mean, tilt. Learn to be comfortable by giving in to those feelings in some way? Through action or thought?
Did I say give into those feeling? Nope. You can have "uncomfortable" feelings without giving into them; you can have "uncomfortable" feeling without being distressed by them.
Thanks for the clarification.
tiltbillings wrote:
I am not sure if you are suggesting a "learn-to-deal-with-it-because-it-isn't-ever-going-to-go-away" mentality.
For the most part, while you are alive, there are going to be sexual feelings. What are you going to do with them?
In regards to the feelings that lead to looking at porn - pay attention to them, learn about how it happens, reduce the feelings and then eventually be rid of them.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

SDC wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
I am not sure if you are suggesting a "learn-to-deal-with-it-because-it-isn't-ever-going-to-go-away" mentality.
For the most part, while you are alive, there are going to be sexual feelings. What are you going to do with them?
In regards to the feelings that lead to looking at porn - pay attention to them, learn about how it happens, reduce the feelings and then eventually be rid of them.
And the same goes for sexual feelings in general.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

SDC wrote:And the same goes for sexual feelings in general.
"eventually be rid of them." I would not count on it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

tiltbillings wrote:
SDC wrote:And the same goes for sexual feelings in general.
"eventually be rid of them." I would not count on it.
:D Why not?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

SDC wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
SDC wrote:And the same goes for sexual feelings in general.
"eventually be rid of them." I would not count on it.
:D Why not?
Eventually, may be with the attainment of higher ariya status, but in the meantime, we are biological, sexual beings and reproduction is what the body wants. The issue is not not having sexual feelings, but how we relate to them.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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SDC
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by SDC »

tiltbillings wrote:Eventually, may be with the attainment of higher ariya status, but in the meantime, we are biological, sexual beings and reproduction is what the body wants. The issue is not not having sexual feelings, but how we relate to them.
Hmm...

So you still are not saying to give into the urges? Your saying the urges will be there at an nonadjustable intensity which will not reduce until we reach ariya, so we have to learn to relate to that intensity somehow?

For the record, I am not trying to be rid the feelings right now either, but I am trying to reduce the urges.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Alex123
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Alex123 »

I am thinking about this radical method. Repeated exposure leads to desensitization, right?

What if a person forces oneself to watch porn mindfully for entire day (or entire weekend) until one is blue in the face. Wouldn't that lead to extreme desensitization and boredom with porn? And then try to abstain forever. When one is "sick and tired" and desensitized, it may be easier to keep the resolve. Not to mention one could say "I've seen it all, I am sick and tired of it, and there is nothing new"

Any ideas, comments, suggestions?
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reflection
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by reflection »

Ok, I think it is time for a bit of constructive replies now. Maybe replies stating freedom from sexual desire to be impossible, or very unlikely can go in threads like this one or this one, so we can keep this as a supportive environment. I would very much appreciate that, personally. Not that I am not convinced it is possible, but still.

Anyway, here is something for those who are willing to give their craving up!

All these Dhammapada verses are very inspiring:
This I say to you:
Good luck to all assembled here!
Dig up the root of craving,
like one in search
of the fragrant root of the birana grass.
Let not Mara crush you again and again,
as a flood crushes a reed.

Whoever overcomes
this wretched craving,
so difficult to overcome,
from him sorrows fall away
like water from a lotus leaf.
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/dhammapada-24.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some inspiration and tactics to apply:
The Blessed One said: "Monks, sensuality is inconstant, hollow, vain, deceptive. It is illusory, the babble of fools. Sensuality here & now; sensuality in lives to come; sensual perceptions here & now; sensual perceptions in lives to come: both are Mara's realm, Mara's domain, Mara's bait, Mara's range. They lead to these evil, unskillful mental states: greed, ill will, & contentiousness. They arise for the obstruction of a disciple of the noble ones here in training.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:namaste:
Last edited by reflection on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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reflection
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by reflection »

Alex123 wrote:I am thinking about this radical method. Repeated exposure leads to desensitization, right?

What if a person forces oneself to watch porn mindfully for entire day (or entire weekend) until one is blue in the face. Wouldn't that lead to extreme desensitization and boredom with porn? And then try to abstain forever. When one is "sick and tired" and desensitized, it may be easier to keep the resolve. Not to mention one could say "I've seen it all, I am sick and tired of it, and there is nothing new"

Any ideas, comments, suggestions?
You could try it, the video of the Ask-A-Monk-monk said something similar. You can see porn just as a bunch of bodies or as "just seeing" as this monk suggested (I'd also say you can see it as "just pixels") but I think that may not the trick. Just like one doesn't overcome ill will with just mindfulness, I don't think one can overcome craving with just mindfulness. There are many quotes in the suttas where it is said that to overcome sensual desire, one needs to practice renunciation; which is giving the particular sensual activity up. That does -in my eyes- not really go hand in hand with watching porn, either mindful or unmindful. And to practice the body as the body and seeing as seeing can also happen without pornography.

However, the monk is not stupid, and neither are you, so I suggest you watch the video for yourself to make a conclusion. It's somewhere in this topic. It did not speak about the "sick and tired" approach though. And I think sensual craving doesn't work like that. It'll just be a temporary fix at best. Just like when you overeat at Christmass and think "I'll never have to eat again"... yeah, until you're hungry, then you'll totally forget what you thought before. :tongue:

I wish you all the best! I can tell you it won't be easy (and so could the Buddha) but hope it will be worth it.

Myself I've started off a new try at 90 days, this time recognizing that my personal issue is keeping enough conviction that it'll indeed be a happier life without it. Which most of the time I did already, but I lost it sometimes.

With metta,
Reflection
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