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Dark night of the "soul" - Dhamma Wheel

Dark night of the "soul"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Nibbida
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Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Nibbida » Fri May 08, 2009 3:59 am

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Last edited by Nibbida on Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pink_trike
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby pink_trike » Sat May 09, 2009 6:37 am

*bump*
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

fijiNut
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby fijiNut » Sat May 09, 2009 7:58 am

In my limited understanding, the closest thing that comes to a "Dark night of the soul" is the Dukha Nanas in Theravada Insight practice.

http://www.buddhanet.net/knowledg.htm

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Jechbi
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Jechbi » Sat May 09, 2009 3:27 pm

It's really hard to know exactly what this young woman was experiencing without being her. But it sounds as if she was experiencing a physical reaction to something in her environment. Part (or all) of that might well have been the mental stuff she was stirring up in meditation practice, but I don't see how Ken Wilbur would have any way of knowing that.

I have some concerns about the exchange in this video.

First, this young woman is sharing a very personal experience that may have complicated, varied contributing factors, but she assumes that the only contributing factor to her troubling experience is her meditation practice. That might not be true. There might be other things going on in her life that also are contributing to this type of anxiety.

Second, Ken Wilbur validates her (possibly incorrect) view that meditation is the only contributing factor for her troubling experience.

Third, who is Ken Wilbur trying to help here? The young woman? Or the entire audience? This particular type of interview should not be conducted in a theater-like setting, in my opinion. I think it would be more appropriate for Ken to preface his comments by saying something like: "You've described some very powerful personal experiences, and I think it would be better if we could discuss this together after the talk, if you wish. But here are some general thoughts that may or may not apply in your particular situation ...) Then, afterward, Ken could try to determine if meditation instruction is really going to help this young woman at this stage, or whether he should suggest that she speak with her physician.

Here are some of the other things that might have been causing her anxiety: diet, a virus, some other physical illness, significant change in family circumstances, significant change in workplace circumstances, the weather, etc. Personally, I think a good teacher would at least suggest that meditation practice alone is not likely to be the sole contributing factor to experiences of anxiety or peace. In fact, a good teacher would say that whatever comes up in meditation, we should recognize that it is impermanent.

MMK23
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby MMK23 » Sat May 09, 2009 3:54 pm

Given my rantings on the other topics, I'm writing here to demonstrate that I am a foolish, yet-to-be-humbled hypocrite. I think given Ken Wilbur's track record: viz his infomercial super-religions, his hawking of shopping channel meditation devices, and his relationship with Genpo Dennis Merzl's unspeakable Big Mind TM, I'd very much like it if his presence were not continued in any Buddhist forums and he was left to hawk his products and his anti-dhammic views through his own door-to-door efforts.

Individual
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Individual » Sat May 09, 2009 4:08 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Nibbida
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Nibbida » Tue May 19, 2009 1:48 am

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Last edited by Nibbida on Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

MMK23
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby MMK23 » Tue May 19, 2009 5:33 am


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Rui Sousa
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Rui Sousa » Thu May 21, 2009 1:03 pm

With Metta

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Jechbi
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Jechbi » Sat May 30, 2009 3:34 pm


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Rui Sousa
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Rui Sousa » Sat May 30, 2009 11:00 pm

Hi jechbi,

For me the sentence "I am a sane person" is equivalent to "I am a person with no mental disorder or unbalance, my mind is perfectly normal and healthy."

Seeing virtue in our minds is very helpful, for the reasons you presented, and so are thoughts of metta towards ones mind. But rejoicing with our wholesome actions means to me that we recognize how rare and how beautiful they are, both in the world as in our minds, which would be the opposite line of thought of "I am sane".

So I say "I am not a sane person. My mind has greed, aversion and ignorance dominating it. I suffer. This has to stop". With this statement, together with metta, I can establish a plan to reduce my delusion, and rejoice when i am able of being kind, generous or when I restrain from indulging the senses.

Beyond the words and their meanings I believe that we are in tune about this matter.
With Metta

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Jechbi
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Re: Dark night of the "soul"

Postby Jechbi » Sun May 31, 2009 5:21 pm

:goodpost:


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