Dhammakaya leader 'knows' the reincarnation of Steve Jobs!

[gavesako]

They are a commercial company, not theravada.

This can be seen for example from this "Get Rich Quick" amulet produced by the Dhammakaya temple.

(Because of the UFO shape of their main temple near Bangkok, they are also known as the Flying Saucer Cult.)

[UhBaUnTaUh]

^

The word in the amulet mean "Be rich quickly".

Note : I don't wanna explain about them anymore, because I want to be keep my mine in Kusalakammapada Number 5. However, they are sattas who buddha taught us to make Brhamviha-ra to them, too.

Although, I post in this topic to tell some truth about them that maybe good for anyone who don't have any information to determine.

We can love them, and should be pitying them, but we should know the truth of they, too.

[gavesako]

The latest development:

Fringe group must respect wishes of local people

The Dhammakaya Buddhist sect will have to think twice about its plans to appropriate land that is considered to be a public amenity by northeastern villagers.

Without the consent and buy-in of local people, Dhammakaya, a controversial Thai Buddhist sect, is unlikely to be able to set up a successful operation in northeastern Sakon Nakhon province. Dhammakaya was reportedly close to concluding a deal with local land officers to claim ownership of 85 rai at Don Sawan. It planned to set up a new branch in the province, but is facing strong protests from local people.

Prompted by the Sakon Nakhon Mayor Komut Teekathananond, several thousand citizens have signed up to protest against the transfer of land ownership to the sect. In addition, many in the province feel uncomfortable with some of the practices of the sect, which allegedly has a policy of encouraging its followers to make substantial and regular cash donations. Recently the sect's preaching caused controversy after it "analysed" the afterlife of Apple founder Steve Jobs. Critics say the sect was simply capitalising on the late electronics guru's fame in order to encourage its followers to hand over more money. One telling photo showed a protester in Sakon Nakhon holding a sign reading, "We don't want UFOs here", alluding to the architectural shape of the memorial hall of the sect's headquarters in Pathum Thani province.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion ... 90262.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



More reports and images from the Thai media:
http://2bangkok.com/forum/showthread.ph ... tion/page4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Slenderman]

Hi Bhante,

The stairway to heaven is all booked up


You need not be a strict Buddhist to find the story of Steve Jobs' life after death very bizarre.

According to the Dhammakaya sect, the late co-founder of Apple has been reincarnated as a mid-level angel and is now living in a six-storey building in a heavenly atmosphere...

Indeed. I remember earlier this year watching a humorous youtube video of three young people interrogating the 'siri' function of the new iphone 4S with questions such as "where is steve jobs, now?". The repeated questioning of the siri function regarding Steve Jobs led to its, a'hem, "emotional" breakdown.

As for someone within the Dhammakaya sect claiming to know the rebirth of the late Steve Jobs - despite it being a flagrant attention-seeking exercise, it does damage to the reputation of the Dhamma within the community.
kind regards,

Ben

I agree 100 % with this. It is damaging, and the guy really has no way of knowing.

[Raksha]

Dear Ven. Gavesako,
It's not fair to take potshots at the Dhammakaya Temple because essentially they mean well, and so everything will work out fine in the end, because good intentions have good results. I believe their legacy will be a completely reinvigorated Thai Buddhism. Instead of indolent, uneducated monks we will have multilingual, graduate monks skilled in satellite TV broadcasting. Instead of passivity and apathy we will have a tradition that is strong and not afraid to stand up for itself. Let's not forget that previously, apart from the odd forest saint, Thai Buddhism was in serious decline.
R.

[Hanzze]

multilingual, graduate monks skilled in satellite TV broadcasting.

Was that an advice of the Buddha and would that be possible without violating the Vinaya, not to think on the harming caused by "Missionary in the Name of..."

might be founded in pity but compassion without wisdom is hurtful for many and at least it show that there is very less faith in the Buddha Sasana but a pride build up on tanha and not compassion at all. Every movement (political, religious...) beside the Dhamma-Vinaya, has failed and caused much pain.

Raksha, rather to feel touched, try to think where the different between Dhamma-Vinaya and such illusions could be. No need to get hurt, but a very need to understand. Which of cause is somehow difficult if we have a believe in "I" or something like a "soul".

It is maybe useful to think what money and its use actually means. Decline is natural when we leave it the natural way, and Samsara does not change if we make dramtics in costumes of the saints out of it.

How every, it is really nice of you and well thought to remember some on the danger of critic even it might be a very needed critic.

[gavesako]

Dear Ven. Gavesako,
It's not fair to take potshots at the Dhammakaya Temple because essentially they mean well, and so everything will work out fine in the end, because good intentions have good results. I believe their legacy will be a completely reinvigorated Thai Buddhism. Instead of indolent, uneducated monks we will have multilingual, graduate monks skilled in satellite TV broadcasting. Instead of passivity and apathy we will have a tradition that is strong and not afraid to stand up for itself. Let's not forget that previously, apart from the odd forest saint, Thai Buddhism was in serious decline.
R.

I take your point about the declining state of the Thai Sangha which often does not seem that inspiring and the standards are pretty low. Compare this article:

"Beginnings of Dhammakaya in Isan"
http://isaan-life.blogspot.com/2012/09/ ... ndbut.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the other hand, I think your hope for a "brighter future" with Dhammakaya is naively optimistic, not realizing the danger behind the impressive facade:

3.7. Soon after Ānanda had left, Māra the Evil One came to the Lord, stood to one side, and said: 'Lord, may the Blessed Lord now attain final Nibbāna, may the Well-Farer now attain final Nibbāna. Now is the time for the Blessed Lord's final Nibbāna. Because the Blessed Lord has said this: "Evil One, I will not take final Nibbāna till I have monks and disciples who are accomplished, trained, skilled, learned, knowers of the Dhamma, trained in conformity with the Dhamma, cor­rectly trained and walking in the path of the Dhamma, who will pass on what they have gained from their Teacher, teach it, declare it, establish it, expound it, analyze it, make it clear; till they shall be able by means of the Dhamma to refute false teachings that have arisen, and teach the Dhamma of won­drous effect."40

http://www.palicanon.org/en/sutta-pitak ... -days.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are plenty of well-researched analyses of the Dhammakaya doctrines which are distorting the Theravada teachings in some crucial aspects. Anyone who is familiar with the Pali Tipitaka texts would be able to see that for themselves (even though Dhammakaya tries to prove that their doctrines are really based on the original texts, though with little success).

However, what is more worrying and a reason for concern is their drive for domination of the Thai Sangha through fostering strong links with influential politicians and business people, and bribing their way to control even the Sangha hierarchy itself so that they can be presented as a new kind of "elite" and model for the rest of the country. They are indeed very well organized and impressively trained, but in a scary way reminiscent of some militaristic movements that we have seen in the past.

They are also trying to dominate the Thai missionary activities abroad: see this new logo of "Wat Europe" network -- their umbrella organization which is supposed to facilitate the propagation of Thai Buddhism in European countries, with the help of Swedish government apparently.
http://wateurope.eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hanzze]

Wellcome in the lands of illusion just be sure that you do not cling on anything.

A man searching for fruit climbs a tree to eat his fill and to stuff his garments with fruit to take home. While he is there, another man searching for fruit comes along. The second man can't climb the tree but he has an axe, so he chops the tree down. If the first man doesn't quickly get out of the tree, he may break an arm or a leg, or even die.

This simile shows the perils of looking for true happiness in the wrong place: in sensual pleasures. If your happiness depends on anything other people can take away from you, you're putting yourself in danger. As the Buddha notes, we hope for happiness in sensual pleasures not because they've ever really satisfied us but because we can't imagine any other escape from pain and suffering. If we allowed ourselves to believe that there is another alternative, we'd be more willing to question our strong faith in our cravings and attachments, more willing to look for that alternative and give it a try.

A person searching for milk tries to get milk out of a cow by twisting its horn. Another person searching for milk tries to get milk out of the cow by pulling at its udder.

from Faith In Awakening

...and sometimes its even good to do not disturb somebody who is twisting horns.

I wounder how much sucess they will have with such a flag...

welcome_02.jpg (21.19 KiB) Viewed 4761 times

SEAsian is very inspired by Chinese samples of power as well as happy about the money flow. And they learn really fast, also from the big brothers of Compassion.

But all in all, maybe a great second wave after Tibetans try... 1+1= not 0

Now we soon have the offical Web-site of "Thai Buddhism". If I would like to cry I would love to cry. People will love it, that's for sure.

[Raksha]

Thankyou Hanzze for your thoughtful reply, and thankyou Bhante for your scholarship and integrity. I know that you both seek to protect the Dhamma ...but I wonder...is there a better way?
My 'naive optimism' is deliberate, because I believe it serves better. If I forcefully oppose the foolishness of beings then I have found that eventually I become a fool too. So instead I choose to see only good in them .

[santa100]

Another effective way beside maintaining the transparency within any Buddhist organization is to encourage common folks to read and learn more about the Dhamma. People can only be deceived when they're ignorant. But time has changed. The internet revolution has made the Teaching widely and freely accessable to everyone. And the more they read and learn, the less likely they will be deceived by false teaching from false teachers. Sites like accesstoinsight or tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page are greatly valuable. The Thai Sangha should make every effort to translate them into the Thai language and open it up to everyone. Through the light of education and understanding, people will naturally know for themselves the right course of action and free themselves from the evil influence of false teachers..

[Hanzze]

If I forcefully oppose the foolishness of beings then I have found that eventually I become a fool too. So instead I choose to see only good in them

Raksha, that is great insight and wise. Neither to opposite such things, nor to support such things but wishing them the best, when you can not really help.
The critice also does not go in direction of the normal follower of this sect, even not in direction of leading layman but on those who are really in charge and would not even have the "legal" possibility to do such things, simply stepping offer the Buddha and his Dhamma-Vinaya.

But as Ajahn Fuang similary to you once said:

"When you want to teach other people to be good, you have to see how far their goodness can go. If you try to make them better than they can be, you're the one who's being stupid."

Those who are in a movie, one is not easy able to help them. There would be only a possibility if one is able to bring their teacher out of the movie. But it's good to show people who are not in a specific moie yet, what the movie is about.

Through the light of education and understanding, people will naturally know for themselves the right course of action and free themselves from the evil influence of false teachers..

Santa, your thought are well meant, but it's always a matter of the right conditions, or let me say, of the karmic situation of them. Its more natural that people run the wrong ways and it doesn't matter it they read or know the good teachings or not. Everything that would be needed in addition is here all the time, that is, was and will be never a probelm.
You just need to think on normal good aducated people in the west, very view are open to Dhamma. No think on people having not even 10% of "modern" education. There is no such thing as free-thinking, there is following what ever seems to be good.

[jameswang]

Thankyou Hanzze for your thoughtful reply, and thankyou Bhante for your scholarship and integrity. I know that you both seek to protect the Dhamma ...but I wonder...is there a better way?

I trust truth to be the better way. That's what Ven Gavesako's is trying to reveal about Dhammakaya. Isn't this the same as what the Buddha did when he pointed out the faults of others teachings of his time and place?

[jameswang]

Raksha, that is great insight and wise. Neither to opposite such things, nor to support such things but wishing them the best, when you can not really help.

Ven Gavesako is trying to help by providing info. People who are informed would know enough to avoid. If you understand psychological manipulation well enough, you know that it's no small matter. You too are a potential victim.

Evidence of Dhammakaya as a cult of greed and delusion is ample. More people are getting sucked in and harvested. Once a person's belief is co-opted, it's hard to change. So, preventive education is important.

Ven Gavesako is doing what others here are not able and willing to do. If anyone wish to make more comments dissuading him, please learn more about Dhammakaya first.

[Kumara]

If you know the history of the Dhammakaya controversy in Thailand, which goes back at least 20 years, this is just the latest event which stirred up a lot of public debate in Thailand this week. The previous case involved some peculiar Dhammakaya teachings, such as claiming that Nibbana is the "true self" (atta), which the eminent scholar Phra Payutto has criticized in his book "Karani Thammakai".

Is this book available in English?

[gavesako]

No, only in Thai and it is quite thick.