something to be learned by heart and master

[leela001]

Herein, monks, in whatsoever company
the monks listen not to those discourses made by poets,
tricked out with fair sounding phrases, discourses external
to Dhamma uttered by their followers, when they are recited:
where they lend not a ready ear to them, apply not to them
a mind bent on understanding, consider not that those
teachings are something to be learned by heart
and mastered; But to those uttered by the Tathagata,
discourses deep and deep in meaning, transcendental,
dealing with the Void – when such are recited
they listen thereto, lend a ready ear to them, apply
to them a mind bent on understanding
and consider that those teachings are something
to be learned by heart and mastered,
- and having mastered that teaching question each
other about it, open up discussion thus:
” What is this? What is the meaning of this?”
-when such open up the unrevealed,
explain the unexplained and dispel doubts on
divers doubtful points of doctrine

Woodward, F.L., MA, The Book of Gradual Sayings (Anguttara-Nikaya)
Vol. I, The Pali Text Society, Lancaster, 2006, p.68-69

Anyone has heard about this sutta? Most Buddhist nowaday are listening to their Ajahns who have own various opinion about dhamma,don't study much Buddha's words.

[Dan74]

Herein, monks, in whatsoever company
the monks listen not to those discourses made by poets,
tricked out with fair sounding phrases, discourses external
to Dhamma uttered by their followers, when they are recited:
where they lend not a ready ear to them, apply not to them
a mind bent on understanding, consider not that those
teachings are something to be learned by heart
and mastered; But to those uttered by the Tathagata,
discourses deep and deep in meaning, transcendental,
dealing with the Void – when such are recited
they listen thereto, lend a ready ear to them, apply
to them a mind bent on understanding
and consider that those teachings are something
to be learned by heart and mastered,
- and having mastered that teaching question each
other about it, open up discussion thus:
” What is this? What is the meaning of this?”
-when such open up the unrevealed,
explain the unexplained and dispel doubts on
divers doubtful points of doctrine

Woodward, F.L., MA, The Book of Gradual Sayings (Anguttara-Nikaya)
Vol. I, The Pali Text Society, Lancaster, 2006, p.68-69

Anyone have heard about this sutta? Most Buddhist now a day are listening to their Ajahns who have so various opinion about dhamma,don't study much Buddha's words.

I think there are many wonderful Ajahns today whose teachings are fully in accord with the Buddhadhamma and who do a great job of helping people understand and implement the Dhamma in their lives.

[leela001]

Herein, monks, in whatsoever company
the monks listen not to those discourses made by poets,
tricked out with fair sounding phrases, discourses external
to Dhamma uttered by their followers, when they are recited:
where they lend not a ready ear to them, apply not to them
a mind bent on understanding, consider not that those
teachings are something to be learned by heart
and mastered; But to those uttered by the Tathagata,
discourses deep and deep in meaning, transcendental,
dealing with the Void – when such are recited
they listen thereto, lend a ready ear to them, apply
to them a mind bent on understanding
and consider that those teachings are something
to be learned by heart and mastered,
- and having mastered that teaching question each
other about it, open up discussion thus:
” What is this? What is the meaning of this?”
-when such open up the unrevealed,
explain the unexplained and dispel doubts on
divers doubtful points of doctrine

Woodward, F.L., MA, The Book of Gradual Sayings (Anguttara-Nikaya)
Vol. I, The Pali Text Society, Lancaster, 2006, p.68-69

Anyone have heard about this sutta? Most Buddhist now a day are listening to their Ajahns who have so various opinion about dhamma,don't study much Buddha's words.

I think there are many wonderful Ajahns today whose teachings are fully in accord with the Buddhadhamma and who do a great job of helping people understand and implement the Dhamma in their lives.

Hi Dan74,
I'm BIG TIME grateful that we have many wonderful Ajahns. I was born in Thailand, was a baby carried by my mother to Wat. Trust me I'm a real buddhist. How about one more sutta, hopefully will bring to the point. Sorry if I'm too blunt. Thank you

“Bhikkhus, once in the past the Dasarahas had a kettle drum called the Summoner (Anaka). When the Summoner became cracked, the Dasarahas inserted another peg. Eventually the time came when the Summoner’s original drumhead had disappeared and only a collection of pegs remained.

So too, bhikkhus, the same thing will happen with the bhikkhus in the future. When those discourses spoken by the Tathagata that are deep, deep in meaning, supramundane, dealing with emptiness, are being recited, they will not be eager to listen to them, nor lend an ear to them, nor apply their minds to understand them; and will not think those teachings should be studied and mastered. But when those discourses that are mere poetry, beautiful in words and phrases, created by outsiders, spoken by [their] disciples, are being recited, they will be eager to listen, will lend an ear to them, will apply their minds to understand them ; and they will think those teachings should be studied and mastered

In this way, bhikkhus, those discourses spoken by the Tathagata that are deep, deep in meaning, supramundane, dealing with emptiness, will disappear.

Bodhi Bhikkhu, The Connected Discourses of the Buddha: A New Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya, Vol I, Wisdom Publications, Boston, 2000, p.708-709

[Dan74]

Hi leela, I am afraid you are not blunt enough for me - who are you talking about?

[Ben]

Hmmm...
I don't understand what this thread is about.

[mikenz66]

Leela, Dan, Ben,

I don't understand what this thread is about.

I guess Leela is talking about a decline in the Sangha, and the lay followers.

I think it's clear that there is a wide variety of "seriousness" amongst Buddhists, both in Asia and elsewhere. However, I think that there are also many opportunities to learn from serious teachers, so I don't tend to dwell on negatives. Furthermore, I have been privileged to meet a number of excellent practitioners who might well be dismissed as "not serious" by some who have self-classified as "serious practitioners"...


Mike

[leela001]

Leela, Dan, Ben,

I don't understand what this thread is about.

I guess Leela is talking about a decline in the Sangha, and the lay followers.

I think it's clear that there is a wide variety of "seriousness" amongst Buddhists, both in Asia and elsewhere. However, I think that there are also many opportunities to learn from serious teachers, so I don't tend to dwell on negatives. Furthermore, I have been privileged to meet a number of excellent practitioners who might well be dismissed as "not serious" by some who have self-classified as "serious practitioners"...


Mike

Thank you Mikenz66, you are sharp period!

[Hanzze]

Anyone have heard about this sutta? Most Buddhist now a day are listening to their Ajahns who have so various opinion about dhamma,don't study much Buddha's words.

Thank you leela001, for this wonderful sutta.

What do you think, will it help those who don't understand? What do you think can be done to change conditions if one would take this sutta as it is?
At least the intelect is one of the six mouthes and is driven by desire for sensual pleasure. How could one realice that this sensual pleasure does not lead to peace, is not free from the need of support and karmical action.

Do you think there is a way? What about a koan (riddle which is not resolvable intelectual)? What about giving them one koan after the other? Would that help them? What if you are already addicted, have taken refuge in this? How could one find out?

Not to forget, that somebody who is addicted is/grows maybe be very angry if you tell him. I guess not easy if it is forced help.

And like Mike also pointed out, we could easily think that we understand but others do not. So what?

Not to much posts training: 6. Post/ 4.10. 11:28 am (accordiny messurement: 8 posts the last 24h) current value: 9. post