cooran wrote:Hello Jaidyn,
Have you personally seen any bullying of ordained Sangha members or of lay sangha members? If so, what do you class as bullying and why?
Jaidyn wrote:I had not expected silence from you upon this important issue.
Jaidyn wrote:If I go to a physical Sangha and bring up the topic of how bullying possibly can manifest, I can imagine something of the following can happen:
The inquiry will be regarded disruptive by others because they feel offended.
People feel it is embarrassing to consider because they actually have had experiences of (indirect) bullying within the Sangha in general, and it is especially not supposed to happen in an organization proclaiming itself to value high moral standards.
It is hard to reflect upon this issue because it will look like I suggest bullying can happen, and that the Sangha in general does not like to be associated with such inquiry (weather bullying does happen or not).
I may be the one polluting the image of the revered Sangha by even expressing reflections, experiences, and concerns.
People will ridicule me, and everything I say will be denied and whitewashed and I will not only appear to be wrong, but maybe even appear to not be a real Buddhist. Maybe I will be accused for not having understood that everything I experience is because of my own attachment to the self?
People may think (supported or unsupported by Buddhism) disciplinary actions in the name of the Buddha can never be systemized wrongfully by someone against someone else.
People think that it can never happen in their Sangha, because everything is working fine, and the particular Sangha is regarded to have high standard (which may be true).
mikenz66 wrote:Hi Jaidyn,
I think that the lack of response may be because we are confused about what exactly you are referring to.
Do you mean:
Clearly most of us here would find it difficult to comment on the latter.
- Sangha in the sense of fellow lay practitioners; or
- Sangha in the sense of the Monastic Sangha?
James the Giant wrote:Uh, Jaidyn, perhaps if anyone here had seen any bullying in the sangha, they would have contributed to this topic.
Until anyone contributes even the tiniest example of bullying, it's all hypothetical and kinda pointless.
James the Giant wrote:Have you ever been to a physical monastery and asked the monks about this? How do you know bullying is a problem? Since you seem to have clear opinions on the subject, it sounds like you have some examples. Personally I have no doubt there may be bullying among ill-disciplined members of the sangha, but I've never seen a trace of it. I'd be interested in hearing of your experiences.
cooran wrote:No, Jaidyn, I haven't seen any bullying in lay or monastic sangha. I have been involved in lay sangha groups for nearly 15 years. I have been involved on committees, been secretary of the committee for a Forest Monastery, and have had five years worth contact with the local monastic Sangha. I have never seen bullying.
with metta and karuna,
James the Giant wrote:I've seen bullying by laypeople, against other laypeople, who were on the trust board of a monastery. Psychological manipulation kind of bullying. It was dirty dirty politics.
But the monastic sangha stayed well clear, and in the end voted to change the trust board to one that was more committed to honesty, transparency, and good will, because they saw what was going on.
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